FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[VentVanitas]

Homogenous job design doesn't benefit anyone in the long run and SE's methods of reworking/new additions is unsustainable. I can't be bothered typing up a whole post because I know it's just going to fly right over your head.

[Sebazy]

For you. In all seriousness, that might signal it's time for you to take a break.

Just don't take such a long break that your house gets demolished yes?

[RyuDragnier]

Just don't take such a long break that your house gets demolished yes?

*demolishes their house while they're subbed anyway*

There, problem solved!

[MonsutaMan]

XIV's job designs are the weak point of the game imo.

I noticed with devs of MMO in particular, the vision begins humble, subservient to the player. However, as the game grows, and their passion grows.......The vision shifts from the player to "Our vision of X job is for it to be, etc, etc...."

BLU would not be the most criticized class of all-time in MMO history, if it could do the MSQ....Just ban it from the crystal tower then lol......

It is so extreme with these folks. All or nothing. Let BLU gain XP from the MSQ, they don't have to be able to do every raid like the towers, simply the soloable ones. or better yet, make it a full job?????

It is just, there isn't $hit to do on BLU (Hey, that rhymed).

[fulminating]

Blue mage is the only fun dps precisely because it doesn't fit the incredibly rigid mold the others have been forced into. I also highly doubt that it is the "most criticised class of all-time in MMO history".

[ForsakenRoe]

For you. In all seriousness, that might signal it's time for you to take a break. For me? The game as a whole is still a ton of fun and very exciting. I like the current feel of the classes, and the trend towards homogeneity while still retaining a few distinct flairs for each class gives someone like me with limited time to play the ability to try out a bunch of different classes without feeling completely overwhelmed whenever I'd like to try something new. And if they were all the same and bland, then I wouldn't have clear preferences for some over others based on their abilities (BLM and RDM play quite differently, for example).

That's cool, and we're glad for you. However, the problem is this: I'm taking a break until next patch comes out. When I come back, I'll do the raid, get BIS and stop playing until next expansion, probably. Previous patches I'd play the whole way through, doing EX trial farming and such, I've not farmed Barb or Rubicante yet as I just don't have any motivation to play the game at the moment. If the point Yoshida made is that us vets should 'come back when there's something new', if the classes stay the same (cough healers) for another expansion, only getting token upgrades like 'Glare 3 is now Glare 4', what reason is there to actually come back? Another 10 levels of story where we press one button for 80% of the gameplay? At which point, those 'taking a break' players are likely to become 'have quit the game due to stagnation' players. The current design is unsustainable. We need low skill floor, high skill ceiling, classes, but SE insists on lowering the skill floor even at the cost of lowering the ceiling at the same time.

A good example of what I want designwise, from the game I'm playing more recently, is OldSchool Runescape. At it's most basic level, combat is 'you click the monster, and wait', and you both autoattack each other until one is dead. But you see the kind of stuff you have to do in high end content like the raids, and it is a whole other beast, despite still being that same familiar 'click to move, click enemy to attack'. Simple to learn, with depth to master. We've got 'simple to learn' but the depth keeps getting more and moew shallow.

I've said before in a previous analogy post: I'm tall as hell. Even as a kid I was tall. When our school class went to the swimming pools to learn how to swim, the instructors kept me in the smaller, more shallow pool, because I couldn't pass the tests to show I was capable of moving to the bigger, teen-adult pool. What they didn't realize, by trying to 'keep me safe', despite me explaining the exact issue I had, was that I was so tall even as a child, that I could not swim in the shallow pool, as my legs would hit the bottom of the pool. Standing up in that pool, the water wouldn't even reach my hips, even back then. I could safely stand upright in the shallow end of the 'real pool', there was no chance of me drowning. But because they had to stick to their rules, or maybe they just didn't believe me, I was not allowed to progress. Furthermore, the bastards decided I would 'get lonely' if I was the only one still locked in the babby pool, so they kept four of the other kids, who were competent swimmers, behind. They punished people who were skilled, because of someone they perceived to be 'not skilled', despite it being entirely possible that, given the chance in 'harder content' (the deeper pool), I'd have flourished and my skill would have shone. And I could feel the animosity of those poor kids, who were being kept in 'shitter jail' with me, because to them, it was my fault that they couldn't have fun learning in the 'real pool'. The whole ordeal had an effect on my mental wellbeing, as well as my learning. I did not learn to swim until I was age 15, and I taught myself (the highschool I went to had an arrangement with the leisure center next door where students could go swimming at lunchtimes).

This is no different, I think. To protect the hypothetical 'players who can't swim', SE's keeping everyone in the babby pool. Even though it's possible we're all actually really good at swimming, nobody's allowed to try the big pool. Because 'Jimmy will feel bad if everyone's good at healing, and he is the only one left in the metaphorical babby pool'. So SE keeps all the 'incredibly competent' healers in with the 'not so competent healers' by reducing what they can do to set themselves as being 'better'. Less damage buttons, less DOTs, more OGCDs, stronger heals, less damage to heal up.

Damn this turned into a healer rant again I'll end it here because if I keep going it'll be twice as long. Because I'll have to do the same length again, but with all the stuff Tank has gone and lost over the years

[Deo14]

Looking at the results really makes me wish that SE would do surveys like this. In-game surveys which represent entire player base, not just specific community, which give you hard, factual, non-deniable data. Then they could actually start listening to player base, instead of listening to loud minority and/or listening only to the feedback they want to hear.

Just from this simple survey (which obviously represents only tiny part of the community), you can for example see that Dragoons are one of the most satisfied players at the moment (below BLM obviously), yet they're on the chopping block - I mean with planned rework. Meanwhile, all healers are around 5/10, with minimal deviation, which is unsurprising since they barely deviate gameplay wise. 66% of surveyed SAMs want "mini-rework". I wonder why.

They keep saying to provide feedback, that they listen to us and the usual sweet nothings. But even if they actually did, from where would they get that feedback? EN forums are half shitpost since nobody believes that devs actually read this. JP forums seems to use those dogshit chaotic mega threads with 100+ pages which make it impossible to pinpoint any specific issue. And I hope that they don't listen to reddits, since r/ffxiv is hyper casual and r/ffxivdiscussion too hardcore. Maybe r/shitpostxiv, that's probably most sensible community. Without in-game surveys, they're left to listen to only small parts of communities. Not like that's a problem since they only choose to listen only to what they want to hear anyways, but hey, would be nice if they would at least put more effort into pretending they're listening.

[ty_taurus]

Looking at the results really makes me wish that SE would do surveys like this. In-game surveys which represent entire player base, not just specific community, which give you hard, factual, non-deniable data. Then they could actually start listening to player base, instead of listening to loud minority and/or listening only to the feedback they want to hear.

Just from this simple survey (which obviously represents only tiny part of the community), you can for example see that Dragoons are one of the most satisfied players at the moment (below BLM obviously), yet they're on the chopping block - I mean with planned rework. Meanwhile, all healers are around 5/10, with minimal deviation, which is unsurprising since they barely deviate gameplay wise. 66% of surveyed SAMs want "mini-rework". I wonder why.

They keep saying to provide feedback, that they listen to us and the usual sweet nothings. But even if they actually did, from where would they get that feedback? EN forums are half shitpost since nobody believes that devs actually read this. JP forums seems to use those dogshit chaotic mega threads with 100+ pages which make it impossible to pinpoint any specific issue. And I hope that they don't listen to reddits, since r/ffxiv is hyper casual and r/ffxivdiscussion too hardcore. Maybe r/shitpostxiv, that's probably most sensible community. Without in-game surveys, they're left to listen to only small parts of communities. Not like that's a problem since they only choose to listen only to what they want to hear anyways, but hey, would be nice if they would at least put more effort into pretending they're listening.

To my knowledge, Dragoon is receiving a rework not because it's flawed or unliked, but because it's perfect and there isn't room to expand on it without messing up that current flow, which I think is a difficult position to be in. As an MMO, there is an expectation to add onto it more in the future, and if they don't, a lot of people will be upset even though Dragoon is in such a good, enjoyable state. That said, Dragoon is one of the few jobs where the design team seems to respect its more complex nuances rather than see them as imperfections to be cleansed. While I'm not 100% confident that it will be a success, I have more confidence in Dragoon's rework turning out as a positive more than I have confidence in the Astrologian rework for example, or most other jobs that need adjustment getting the proper changes.

[Deo14]

To my knowledge, Dragoon is receiving a rework not because it's flawed or unliked, but because it's perfect and there isn't room to expand on it without messing up that current flow, which I think is a difficult position to be in. As an MMO, there is an expectation to add onto it more in the future, and if they don't, a lot of people will be upset even though Dragoon is in such a good, enjoyable state. That said, Dragoon is one of the few jobs where the design team seems to respect its more complex nuances rather than see them as imperfections to be cleansed. While I'm not 100% confident that it will be a success, I have more confidence in Dragoon's rework turning out as a positive more than I have confidence in the Astrologian rework for example, or most other jobs that need adjustment getting the proper changes.

It's nice to see some positivity for a change, but devs have a terrible history with reworks, which is why everyone is so afraid. They postponed AST and DRG reworks after insane backlash from Kaiten, which tells me that they themselves don't believe that their past plans on 6.3 reworks were good enough in a first place and same thing as with 6.1 SAM would happen again. So in good scenario, they'll actually put in some effort and DRG will get actually good rework in 7.0. In a bad scenario, they just delayed the release of the original 6.3 rework, just to wait for people to cooldown after SAM rework. Considering that SAM is still hollow shell of its past self a year later, I fear that radio silence and hoping that players will forget became their tactic.