FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[ty_taurus]

So I thought of an interesting question that could be fun to discuss. There's no need to get very specific with these ideas, but start by picking a job. What are 1-5 actions you want to see added to that job in the next expansion (regardless of whether or not you believe they're realistic), and what are 1-5 actions you expect to see of that same job?

I'll start with Sage.

What I want to see
- [Attack Spell] - Replaces Soteria, has the same potency as Dosis (AoE with falloff), and has a higher MP cost. It applies 4 stacks of Soteria's effect to your Kardia target when cast normally, or when cast under Eukrasia, applies 2 stacks of a buff to your Kardia target that applies Kardia healing to all party members around them.
- [Proto-Pneuma] - A stronger version of Pneuma that is strictly a DPS tool with no healing attached. After it's used, it can be recast as regular Pneuma once per cooldown.

What I expect
- [Defensive Cooldown] - The large wall cast by Alphinaud during the cutscene fight with the EW final boss, or by Fourchenault during the conjoined role quest that is basically a wider Passage of Arms. It requires you channel to keep it up.
- [Healing Cooldown] - Another OGCD recovery tool that applies a barrier to the party initially, and when the barrier breaks on someone, heals that party member.

[AmiableApkallu]

So I thought of an interesting question that could be fun to discuss. There's no need to get very specific with these ideas, but start by picking a job. What are 1-5 actions you want to see added to that job in the next expansion (regardless of whether or not you believe they're realistic), and what are 1-5 actions you expect to see of that same job?

White Mage

My answers might change if you ask me this again another day, but today, my mood is...

What I want to see

• Protect: Delete Collective Unconscious from AST and give it to CNJ/WHM. If Y'shtola (1.0 Limsa Intro) and Kan-E-Senna (Ghimlyt Dark) can use it, then so can we.
• Afflatus Something: AoE shield/barrier.
• Seraph Strike: From PvP.
• Afflatus Purgation: From PvP. If it keeps the stun (unlike below), then it ignores stun immunity.

What I expect

• At Lv.94, SGE's Rhizomata, except it grants a lily.
• At Lv.98, additional charges for exactly two of the following: Thin Air, Tetragrammaton, Aquaveil, Temperance.
• At Lv.100, Afflatus Purgation: SGE's Pneuma, except it grants a regen effect to the party instead of triggering Kardion. Uses the same animation as the PvP skill.

[IDontPetLalas]

"added" to your job , not "stolen" from a job. if you want CU for WHM, no problem, I'll take "Coma"- for AST- CU but with 20% damage reduction as one of the 5 skills.

[Renathras]

Direct from YoshiP (wezll, his translator)
Live letter 66 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SXLmXt5lZk
at around 17mn

Cool, appreciate that. I always like to see sources of quotes that people pass around to make sure they're saying what they seem to be saying and what context (if any) they're said under.

...

In terms of making changes that affect people, it's important to consider their feelings in the matter, even if you cannot poll them directly. It's why sweeping changes to policy and law are often only done after extensive studies (not always polls) that try to determine how people think about them and what the effects would be on the people who dislike them, even if that number isn't known or known precisely. Any viewpoints (via poll) used to suggest policy change must at least acknowledge these effects and what the perception would be by those people in doing it, and good studies would also indicate a confidence level as to how well they think they are representing the people as a whole.

Why is that when you post your opinion, it's objective, yet when someone else tries to counter, you try to dismiss it as subjective?

Oh, my apologize.

Let me correct that:

SCH and AST might not be better off in SB. SCH and AST might be better off in ShB and EW. They could be the best they've ever been right now.

Better?

Of all the things to call me on for being subjective, something you agree with and that an absolute majority of people in both Ty's survey and my own agree with seems to be an odd choice. But have your gotcha, I suppose? /shrug

What else...

"(which you seem to at least acknowledge)" does mean you acknowledged it. Yes. So...why are you trying to correct something that's right? I said "seem" because I didn't want to put words in your mouth if you did not. There was no hidden meaning to the word.

"Was that the one with the Fire island?" I think that was 4.2. 4.1 was then they re-released two prior Troll themed raids, the Vanilla WoW 20 man one in Stranglethorn Vale and the 10 man one near the Blood Elf starting area from Burning Crusade, as 5 man dungeons that were extra hard. Those were the two you had to do for the badges or whatever (Tomestones, let's call them Tomestones) for the 4.1 patch. They were beastly hard, and Cataclysm had the stupid "triage healing model" where they tuned encounters to hit like FFXIV but gave you healing tools like a level 15 WHM in power that all cost as much as Cure 3. Needless to say, it was bad. So many healers quit that patch, they finally toned it down in the following patches. By 4.3 or so (I think that was the one with the 3 Bronze Dragonflight dungeons), they had relaxed the healing and people's gear was high enough healers were able to actually work again, and those were SO much better. But in 4.1, healing in WoW was absolute hell.

"Agreed, the thing is" - honestly, I think oGCDs are way too powerful. I feel like healing should be far more GCD based. GCD heals should be the strong ones with oGCD heals being agumenting them. So skilled healers in good parties can shift more to the oGCD side, but people using GCD heals should be able to get through the healing requirements, and the shift should be from GCD to oGCD as encounter teams get better. Right now, it's not that way. The oGCDs are the first line heals rather than the last line or secondary help. Instead of "Use Asylum if Medica 2 isn't quite enough healing", it's "Use Medica 2 if Asylum isn't enough healing".

"Oh, I could have sworn you said" - "one of the". Those are important words. I do agree the kits need to be re-evaluated, but I suspect we think different parts of the kits are in need of reevaluation.

Oh, and I don't mind MP being a more needed/managed resource at all. If we toned down the oGCDs, that might actually be relevant.

So while there's definitely an argument to be made about WHM 'feeling' good in terms of access to powerful heals,

I think this is, in fact, what people mean.

Also AST robbing WHM of its kit, getting lower MP costs for the same potency abilities (the GCDs), and then getting better MP regeneration skills (and robbing WHM of Lucid Dreaming/Shroud of Saints back in SB as well when it became a Role action) is, in fact, something I've spoken out against before.

WHM has this feeling/history because it was compared to SCH (whose GCD heals have always been weaker in potency) and Cure 3 initially, and then ShB Thin Air. Though it should be noted WHM's Lily heals are 100% MP free to use and also have no cast time requirement. I should also note ShB Thin Air was ALSO robbed from us... <_<

Me attempting to Quote your comment ->

I'm hardly the only one with long posts. In fact, other people have me beat in length sometimes. I just tend to be replying to several people instead of making several smaller posts in a row. I don't see you complaining about anyone else doing it, so no, I don't think I will.

Also: Edit button, that's how. There's a kind of stupidly small character limit, but if you make a post less than that, then hit edit...apparently you can post as long as you want after that. I'm sure there's SOME upper limit, but I have no idea what it may be.

So I thought of an interesting question that could be fun to discuss. There's no need to get very specific with these ideas, but start by picking a job. What are 1-5 actions you want to see added to that job in the next expansion (regardless of whether or not you believe they're realistic), and what are 1-5 actions you expect to see of that same job?

I think this isn't the best way to frame the question - button bloat is real and many people would like to REMOVE (or combine) some actions. For example, I think most everyone thinks that Cure 1/Benefic 1 should be merged with Cure 2/Benefic 2, and probably Medica/Helios with Medica 2/Aspected Helios. Also, a lot of "actions added" might not be "ACTIONS added" so much as "EFFECTS added". For example, I think WHM should get the Protect effect added (same as PvP, though it comes from Seraph Strike; reduces damage taken by 10% for 10 seconds) to Plenary Indulgence. PI already puts a buff on party members (which is what the AOE heals proc off of), so having that buff also reduce damage taken would be an easy addition.

That said...sure, I'll do mine:

White Mage

What I want to see

- Protect effect added to Plenary Indulgence
- Thin Air reverted to ShB's duration based instead of charge based
- Another charge on Tetra (if we aren't removing/toning down oGCDs)
- The mythical Cure IV (and it should have the floaty animation that Holy/Glare do)
- A Lily spender either barrier or HoT. Something that can be used on someone (at least the Tank) even if everyone's at 100% without it being a waste.

What I expect

- An upgrade to Glare
- An upgrade to Dia (it was missed this expansion vs Glare and Holy and just had a potency boost)
- An upgrade to Holy
- Some new capstone - ARR was arguably Benediction, HW Tetra, SB Plenary, ShB Temperance, EW Lilybell. Maybe a Collective Unconscious-like bubble like Y'Shtola and Kan-E-Senna use?
- Some ability or upgrade of an ability around level 96, maybe Asylum finally gets a mitigation, who knows - call this the mystery bucket. If a new ability, might be another Lily spender (Regen maybe?)

[ForsakenRoe]

"Agreed, the thing is" - honestly, I think oGCDs are way too powerful. I feel like healing should be far more GCD based. GCD heals should be the strong ones with oGCD heals being agumenting them. So skilled healers in good parties can shift more to the oGCD side, but people using GCD heals should be able to get through the healing requirements, and the shift should be from GCD to oGCD as encounter teams get better. Right now, it's not that way. The oGCDs are the first line heals rather than the last line or secondary help. Instead of "Use Asylum if Medica 2 isn't quite enough healing", it's "Use Medica 2 if Asylum isn't enough healing".

So... Heavensward?

What I expect (and hope doesn't happen):
- An oGCD that can only be used under Riddle of Fire or Brotherhood.
- A 2 minute cooldown that just gives us both Nadis so Phantom Rush can be used in the opener.

I can see the latter being added as a side effect like 'press Anatman outside of combat and it instantly gives you 5 chakra and 2 nadi'. Spirit Bomb followup to brotherhood would be funny for the meme but it wouldn't feel right unless it took 4 episodes to charge and cast

edit: wait let me do one too

WHM: What I want:
- Dia rescaled to be 12s
- Water/Banish as a 15s CD GCD, slightly stronger than Glare equivalent, instantcast
- New gauge, 0-100, fills 1 per Glare, 1 per Dia tick (and 1 on cast), 5 per Banish (roughly 60 gauge per min in dummy scenario)
- New AOE GCD heal that costs 50 of this new gauge, which also turns GlareDiaBanish for one cast into...
- Quake (100p more than Glare), Tornado (30p more than Dia, 20p per tick more than Dia's tick, total boost of 110), Flood (100 more than Banish). These three boosts combined make the heal damage neutral
- 2 Charges on Assize/Tetra
- Rapture moved to 70
- Plenary moved to 76
- Protect as low level mit tool, upgrades to Plenary at 76 (keeps the mit effect so WHM has a 60s answer to AST's CU)
- Divine Seal back as 'Temperance without the mit', upgrades to Temp at 80
- Lily spender Stoneskin, applies a shield, at 70 it upgrades to Afflatus Bastion/Sanctuary (AOE version is learned at 70 too), shields are weaker than SGE/SCH GCD shields but damage neutral so there's maybe interesting 'can we get away with it' moments
- Cleric Stance (or Seraph Strike) as a 60s CD, 10s duration selfbuff, as a 'Trick attack' to POM's 'Mug'. Lean into WHM being the BLM of healers, it has no utility but it pumps
- Merge Cure and Cure2 (MP cost reduced to Cure1's level), merge Medica and Medica2 (just add the Med2 HOT to Med1's base heal)
- If there's any room left for another thing before the 'i play healer to heal' complaints get too much to handle, return Aero 3 as a 24s DOT (or Phlegma-like 24s CD if you really have to), generate 10 gauge over it's duration/at once if it's a burst damage

What I expect:
- Probably the AOE heal, without the gauge cost, or the Quake etc side effect, just a standalone GCD aoe heal
- Regen 2

And for SGE, what I want: this, I am not writing it all again

what I expect:

- Holos 2

[VentVanitas]

So I thought of an interesting question that could be fun to discuss. There's no need to get very specific with these ideas, but start by picking a job. What are 1-5 actions you want to see added to that job in the next expansion (regardless of whether or not you believe they're realistic), and what are 1-5 actions you expect to see of that same job?

Oh boy an excuse to talk about Monk! Monk to me is an interesting job to discuss when it comes to new actions because a lot of its problems can't really be solved with more additions to its rotation. Adding one thing (assuming it isn't just a flat potency oGCD) could potentially effect other systems without even being directly tied to it, such as was the case of ShB Anatman or SB's 60s Perfect Balance and Wind Tackle. But I'll answer this question strictly under the context of "new actions only" rather than what systems I want to see reworked.

What I want:
- Pressure Point (trait) - Using skills like Forbidden Chakra/Enlightenment, Six Sided Star, Form Shift or Riddle of Wind gives the Pressure Point buff, increasing the next (non-Blitz) GCD skill's damage by 50%.
- Chi Blast (GCD) - Additional follow up attack to Six Sided Star, gives one Chakra upon use. Added potency if used under Pressure Point.
- Internal Release (returning oGCD) - 15 second buff on a 45s cooldown, all GCDs under this buff open a Chakra.
- A visual upgrade to Elixir Field, preferably named Aura Bolt.

What I expect (and hope doesn't happen):
- An oGCD that can only be used under Riddle of Fire or Brotherhood.
- A 2 minute cooldown that just gives us both Nadis so Phantom Rush can be used in the opener.

[Zairava]

So I thought of an interesting question that could be fun to discuss. There's no need to get very specific with these ideas, but start by picking a job. What are 1-5 actions you want to see added to that job in the next expansion (regardless of whether or not you believe they're realistic), and what are 1-5 actions you expect to see of that same job?

Dark Knight.

What I want to see:

• Shadowskin to come back as a low level TBN, to then evolve into TBN, then for TBN to evolve into Oblation which adds the 10% damage mit and adds a small regen upon fading or breaking. The mana cost on this to be removed and thus increasing its cooldown.
• Dark Arts to return on a 3k mana cost, granting nothing to the Darkside Timer. This would effect and/or grant various GCD's. (given that the mana cost on the short CD is removed, this irons out to 1-2 uses per minute)
• Darkside timer more involved. If it isn't, just make it a passive.
• Scourge and Power Slash to come back in some form as GCD's, Through Dark Arts or otherwise.
• Shadowbringer to be a single charge
• Revamp Living Shadow into something that merges with you, similar to Reaper's enshroud in animation but works like Bunshin.
• Something more interesting done with Salted Earth similar to its pvp counterpart.
• Either make Delirium something that isn't worse Inner Release or remove it entirely and move the potency elsewhere

What I expect:

• Upgrades to Flood/Edge
• TBN merged with oblation, or oblation with Dark Mind
• Upgraded 1-2-3 combo or just the combo ender
• Delirium granting or starting a combo like Paladin's Confiteor combo
• If nothing is done with Salted Earth, for it to be removed from the pve scene.

[Nizzi]

So I thought of an interesting question that could be fun to discuss. There's no need to get very specific with these ideas, but start by picking a job. What are 1-5 actions you want to see added to that job in the next expansion (regardless of whether or not you believe they're realistic), and what are 1-5 actions you expect to see of that same job?

This kind of stuff is fun even if it doesn't result in anything from SE, but work is boring today so I may as well!

For Scholar...

What I want to see

• Miasma and Miasma II's restoration, but slightly reworked. I think BRD's DoTs are going to be culled in 7.0, and I thought the previous gameplay they had was very fun, so ideally I'd like for that to be incorporated into SCH's gameplay loop somehow; leaning into SCH's crit buff a bit, a crit tick from Bio or Miasma would give the ability to use Miasma II (can replace either Art of War or Ruin II to not have a dedicated conditional button) which would be DPS neutral or a DPS gain in ST encounters (I was thinking 200-250 potency + 12s 25 potency DoT vs Broil's 295) but having the "Miasma II ready" or whatever effect on a short timer so you can't just hold it for burst windows and instead use it for needed movement within the timer duration or just immediately.
• Bane either as its own button or a trait of Deployment Tactics, spreads Miasma and Bio
• Adlo to become an upgrade of Physick
• Protraction to become spreadable via Deployment Tactics

What I expect

• Broil V, Biolysis II
• A 2nd charge of Indom or Fey Blessing
• Trait that reduces the recast timer of Summon Seraph
• Level 100 skill being some oGCD heal+shield that invalidates Indom being used for 90% of things, just like Excog invalidates Lustrate very heavily.

I guess this could also go under "What I want to see" but this is more of a general change; since they're adding fairy glamour and likely removing Summon Selene as a button, just go all the way and make the fairy upgrade into Seraph at level 80 so we can virtually eliminate the remaining ghosting too. Would give a paint job to Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination while also not locking you out of Fey Blessing, Dissipation or Fey Union. Change "Summon Seraph" into Rouse to get the buffed Embraces + Consolation and there's significantly less "clunk" present too.

[ty_taurus]

I suppose I could ask this over on the tank forums, but it popped into my mind here. Now, I'm not really a tank player; I've only just leveled the tanks. I understand some of the complaints and issues surrounding tanks on a surface level, but not on an intimate level, so forgive me if this is not an effective solution to Living Shadow, but I'd like to ask for anyone with more intimate knowledge of the job.

Would Living Shadow feel better and function well if Frey was designed to imitate the GCDs you use, perhaps up to 5 hits or so? I know a big complaint with Living Shadow as well as the Automaton Queen is that they feel like glorified DoTs, so I am curious if making Frey's action usage dependent on your own would resolve that.

[Zairava]

I suppose I could ask this over on the tank forums, but it popped into my mind here. Now, I'm not really a tank player; I've only just leveled the tanks. I understand some of the complaints and issues surrounding tanks on a surface level, but not on an intimate level, so forgive me if this is not an effective solution to Living Shadow, but I'd like to ask for anyone with more intimate knowledge of the job.

Would Living Shadow feel better and function well if Frey was designed to imitate the GCDs you use, perhaps up to 5 hits or so? I know a big complaint with Living Shadow as well as the Automaton Queen is that they feel like glorified DoTs, so I am curious if making Frey's action usage dependent on your own would resolve that.

It undeniably would feel better, and more impactful at the least. Living Shadow as it is is just press and forget, and the 50 gauge cost doesn't amount to much. While the idea of summoning him is cool on paper, it feels ultimately hollow because there's no interaction with Living Shadow and the rest of the kit.