Why do people avoid getting better at the game?

[VelKallor]

I honestly don't consider the people that afk on limsa everyday and feel entitled to every single reward with barebones participation are casuals.

Exactly how these two things are even related or coexist in any form is yet to be proven.

Casual players are people that don't give a lot of hours to the game and that don't engage in a lot of endgame activities like savage or ultimate

Endgame is whatever we want it to be...FF 14 isnt raid or die, nor is it in anyway raid reliant or dependant, your determination of 'worth" based on who raids is basically...idiotic.

not players that stay subbed and online everyday but have zero interest in any gameplay or learning curve

What gameplay in specific?

Without third party tools you actually have NOTHING to tell you if you are doing it right or wrong, if you are being able to do a good amount of damage or not, so many people do not even realize they are terrible.

The game is playable and clearable without third party tools...your reliance on these is a YOU problem.

[Melorie]

Endgame is whatever we want it to be...FF 14 isnt raid or die, nor is it in anyway raid reliant or dependant, your determination of 'worth" based on who raids is basically...idiotic.



The game is playable and clearable without third party tools...your reliance on these is a YOU problem.

That's why I said "like savage or ultimate". I never said that a person isn't worth because they do not raid, that is your own insecurities regarding raiding that shows every single thread speaking. I spend most of my time fishing lately... But regardless, it is not uncommon to act like endgame is the hardest content available in a game with a progression/content such as FFXIV, so I'm not sure why you are surprised with that statement, it is not like it is a sandbox game.

I also literally told you how you can clear most of the game without ever knowing if you are optimizing your class or not, so still, you proved my point yet again. Fact remains that there is no system in-game to actually tell you if you are pushing your class to the limit or not so many people do not know if they are good at their class or not. I have been the person that is probably bad and does not even know if I'm being bad, because there is no way to know unless I go through the hassle of installing a dps meter but given that I don't really raid, I never really had the energy to do that.

World PvP is just a fancy way to say "griefing". Sure, "For the Alliance" or "For the Horde" is a fun event, but it happens like ... twice a year? 99% of time it's "let's go kill the lowbie because lol".

Not really. You have games such as E.V.E or even BDO where PVP plays a completely different role to the game, in E.V.E it is deeply tied to the economy, same with Albion, etc. There are more games out there and World PVP does not really mean "plays like WoW".

[Raven2014]

Not really. You have games such as E.V.E or even BDO where PVP plays a completely different role to the game, in E.V.E it is deeply tied to the economy, same with Albion, etc. There are more games out there and World PVP does not really mean "plays like WoW".

Uhm ... I don't think those comparison make any sense though? The reason WoW and FF14 are often compared because they're direct peer to peer, they're comparable. E.V.E is built from the ground up to be around PvP, it's not a feature, it's the game itself. BDO also based on a completely different model and approach, like ... it's almost built as an antithesis to FF14 in the sense it entire focus on open world playing, so of course it allow world PvP. Even that, I know plenty of BDO players wish they don't have to deal with it. Doing it different doesn't mean doing it better. At least WoW give you an opt-out clause on PvE server, whether BDO you will have to content locked yourself if you don't want PvP.

[Melorie]

Uhm ... I don't think those comparison make any sense though? The reason WoW and FF14 are often compared because they're direct peer to peer, they're comparable. E.V.E is built from the ground up to be around PvP, it's not a feature, it's the game itself. BDO also based on a completely different model and approach, like ... it's almost built as an antithesis to FF14 in the sense it entire focus on open world playing, so of course it allow world PvP. Even that, I know plenty of BDO players wish they don't have to deal with it. Doing it different doesn't mean doing it better. At least WoW give you an opt-out clause on PvE server, whether BDO you will have to content locked yourself if you don't want PvP.

I agree with you. My point was mostly regarding people speaking as if World PvP itself is a bad design decision that should not exist where that notion actually limits creativity when it comes to developing MMOs. I don't feel like it would work with FFXIV regardless.