Why do people avoid getting better at the game?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

This is so rich coming from you, someone who has waxed philosophic about how the state of healing is fine in high end content despite not actually doing any of that content.

In that regard the OP of this very thread has held back all of the savage groups they've been in. They haven't even cleared this tier yet.

[Leifei]

I do most of the hard content in this game and I tend to scale above average in savage at my best. I used to be in the top 20%, sometimes top 5-10 depending on fight but I haven't done as well in recent tiers.

That said,


Some people simply don't have the capability of getting better than where they currently are.



I'm atrocious at fighting games, no matter how many guides and videos I look up. I suck at fps games, despite understanding how the mechanics in them work.



Not everyone can be good at a specific thing. Doesn't mean they can't still get some enjoyment out of it.

I think you're short changing yourself. Just like how you got good in raiding in FFXIV, you can do the same with fighting games and shooters. It just takes practice. Repetition is the mother of skill.

[AwesomeJr44]

For most people it's either a lack of confidence that keeps them from trying, laziness that keeps them from trying, or they don't play the game enough to merit putting effort into it.

I think you're short changing yourself. Just like how you got good in raiding in FFXIV, you can do the same with fighting games and shooters. It just takes practice. Repetition is the mother of skill.

Skill caps are a genuine thing. Not everyone can be amazing at everything, even with huge amounts of time invested. That's why you gotta choose which skills you invest in carefully. I tried to rank up in Overwatch for years, but it just wasn't the type of game I could be amazing at. However, anyone outside of those with genuine disabilities (no offense to those people) can become pretty good at most things. Not amazing, but pretty good. Most people in this community probably could clear savage if they put time and effort into it, they just don't.

There's also the idea of working smarter, not harder that a lot of people don't consider when trying to improve at a skill. Repetition isn't enough, repeating it the right way is the key.

[Gemina]

Apparently better than you

All evidence the contrary. Because if you did you'd have a counter argument at very least instead of a snide comment that does nothing to dispute what I'm talking about.

Care to try again, champ? Or do you want to continue to troll with more verbal garbage?

[Leifei]

The answer is simple. There is no reason to get better at the game.

XIV offers such a casual experience that the player base has never had a reason to actually get better at game mechanics outside of those who wish to participate in Extreme/Savage/Ultimate content.

The player base get babysat through the entire game, even get difficulty DROPS in MSQ instances because.. it is too hard?

There is no reason to babysit people. People adapt and become better players by being challenged, even if it is only a small challenge.

There will always be that crowd that shouts for nerfs to content because they don't want to actually have to learn to play the game, Those players will complain about everything that makes them have to actually think while playing.

Content does not have to be 'Extreme/Savage' level of difficulty to be challenging. The final duty in 6.0 was a good example of this. It was not hard, but it DID challenge people and they learned from their mistakes and eventually cleared it.

What could change?
What incentives would be required to get people to try out new content?

Who knows, Discuss below.

Incentive? I'd say glamour locked behind savage fights. Put a lot of options in there. Everyone loves to glam. I think that would increase the participation rate for endgame content. This would indirectly increase the average skill level of players. Also, the glam drops would need to be locked behind an Item level range when doing the content so people cannot cheese the content for drops later.

[moroarda]

what's the problem with a lot of people not being good ?

The issue isn't people not being good, it's people being bad at a critical mass.

If you get a full group of mediocre players that only kind of understand their jobs it'll take you a little extra time to clear any given content. Not good, but not catastrophic.

If you get a full group of bads, you won't clear. That's a problem. This is only worsened when you get one poor, competent player surrounded by bumbling idiots - they're now doomed by proxy.

I don't care if people aren't optimal, but they should be trying because if not they're telling everyone else to pick up their slack and that's not okay.

I'm not here to carry someone else, if SE wants that from me they have my bank info.

[Amarande]

it creates a divide in the community between good players and bad players, giving good players a reason to be elitist, and therefore creating a toxic enviroment

Yep, exactly this.

A game pretty much has three paths open to it over time (provided it does not die before that ... maybe that's why it feels like so many chill games die? Less "games die because they were chill" and more "games were remembered as chill because they didn't last long enough to come to the inevitable dilemmas that ruin it all"?) as the skill gap between players widens.

The trouble is there usually isn't a lot of solution to it by the time you realize there is a problem.

Plan A: You make a point to hang onto everyone, which creates a situation where there's a big enough gulf between the most casual players (who, when one considers their primary and maybe only purpose in playing the game is to unwind and destress, can't really be knocked too hard for not putting a significant priority in skill improvement, especially skill improvement for its own sake) and the most hardcore players (for whom getting better and better at the game is a goal of itself, and done for its own sake).

Upshot: Casual and hardcore players end up at permanent loggerheads, creating an endless stream of conflict and contumely in the community. Intermediate players get caught in the middle (especially since it's always harder to actively design for intermediate skill than for the endpoints), feeling like they have no place in either camp.

Plan B: You give in to the loud voices of the hardcore and raise the skill floor over time to force people to improve or leave so that there's more common skill ground among strangers.

Upshot: People, especially when a game gets to be a long runner so that the skill frog boiling is gradual enough, quit, often under particularly grumpy terms because they probably liked the parts of the game that they were able to handle before they hit a wall of either brick or simply of more effort than they deem enjoyable to put in given their goals in playing the game. Often, stereotypical talking points (true or not) about the mindset of hardcore gamers are trotted out in the process. The community is STILL noted as tense and conflict ridden as a result (especially when the reason for quitting isn't because players can't, but because the work required is no longer enjoyable, which usually results in shots back from the hardcore crowd about how the complainant is lazy and wants people to put in effort on their behalf).

Plan C: You give in to the voices of the people who want relaxed fun and nerf the difficulty so that it's easy enough that less dedicated players don't drag down the more dedicated too much.

Upshot: Dedicated fans complain that the game no longer rewards their dedication, in other words often the reverse of the previous scenario (it used to challenge them, now it doesn't). They take to soapboxes and complain that their dedicated support is not rewarded and the game caters to people that don't put in effort. Although this USED to be just a minority of usually easy to dismiss people, in the world of streaming video, they often reach out to their sycophants about this grievance, resulting in many people (who were often not actually fans of the game itself at all but only of their favorite streamer) ditching the game and Biz worrying about the PR implications of having major influencers dissatisfied with the product.

Plan D: Apparently we need it, but what?

[Leifei]

For most people it's either a lack of confidence that keeps them from trying, laziness that keeps them from trying, or they don't play the game enough to merit putting effort into it.



Skill caps are a genuine thing. Not everyone can be amazing at everything, even with huge amounts of time invested. That's why you gotta choose which skills you invest in carefully. I tried to rank up in Overwatch for years, but it just wasn't the type of game I could be amazing at. However, anyone outside of those with genuine disabilities (no offense to those people) can become pretty good at most things. Not amazing, but pretty good. Most people in this community probably could clear savage if they put time and effort into it, they just don't.

There's also the idea of working smarter, not harder that a lot of people don't consider when trying to improve at a skill. Repetition isn't enough, repeating it the right way is the key.

Skill caps exist, true. However, believing that there is a plateau that you cannot overcome will hinder your growth in any skill set. Mentality is extremely important. Aside from putting in the time you have to believe that you'll be badass with the right effort. As for working smart, that goes without saying. The repetition part includes refinement of the training process over time.

[kaynide]

It isn't necessarily avoidance in all cases.

I've been playing since December 2021 and whilst I'd say I've probably improved over that time, I'm still not where I feel I should be for someone who has been playing for as long as I have.

And I will say that it's NOT for want of trying. I've worked my ass off learning rotations with the jobs I've chosen and have a fairly good grasp of the ones I've learnt (still haven't really tried healing and have only dipped my toe into Tanking) but despite that I seem to have an absolutely appalling memory for mechanics. No matter how many times I've played *enter name of content here* I either forget the mechanics, make stupid mistakes or simply react to them too slowly and end up tanking the floor.

I don't know - perhaps one of these days something will click and I'll suddenly stop being so useless where those issues are concerned, and again - it isn't that I don't try - but I do still feel like my performance shouldn't really be where it is at this point and I could understand if someone were to think that I fall into the subject category of this thread.

As someone who followed your initial thread/journey into the game I would say this: you are the target audience- you aren’t expected to be the best and have been able to clear a lot of the games content by doing your best. Sometimes you got frustrated, but you could get through it.

I would even argue you are above average because you have put a lot of effort into being better and trying harder content. So from me to you, in my humblest opinion, I think you are doing fantastic.

Remember: the devs collaborated to make a TV drama about an older man playing this game and essentially being carried through binding coil by his son. They appreciate effort, gumption and individual accomplishments over actual big-picture player-wide skill levels.

[Xaphire]

I'm sorry if I am repeating other people's points but I haven't had time to read the whole thread.

FFXIV, in my experience, has a terribly large gap between the skill floor of the player base and its skill ceiling and the primary reason for this to exist, in my opinion, is that most content in the game does not require a player to be performing at even 50% of their ability.

Healing in dungeons is relatively easy thanks to how powerful tank self-healing is and how low damage output of monsters generally is. I can't think of a time I've used a hard-cast heal in dungeons this expansion.

Alliance raid content and normal trial content don't have hard enrages and you can limp through the encounters with dozens of deaths.

These two things combined has lead to a group of the player base that wants to perform well and clear things as quickly as possible and a second set that is just fine pressing one-button and getting their clear. It's easy to see how the former would resent the latter and feel that they're carrying their dead-weight. I personally feel my time is being disrespected by players that put in the minimum effort. The game isn't *that* complex and it's pretty easy to sort a single- and multi-target damage rotation. Your hotbar even lights up, yet I've still come across players obviously not even doing their 1-2-3 combo.

It's frustrating, and I would like to see content be more difficult in the future - not significantly so, but enough that players need to learn the basics of the game.