Why do people avoid getting better at the game?

[VelKallor]

Would be a lot easier if people would stop playing games they suck at.

I really dont think thats a helpful attitude to take with anyone.

[Tigore]

Would be a lot easier if people would stop playing games they suck at.

I really dont think thats a helpful attitude to take with anyone.

I will agree with Velkallor. If we actually took the advice of never playing games we suck at long ago, none of us would even be here. Someone would have to tell us where "The Balance Discord" is if we wanted to get the mathed out rotations. Some practice is needed to get a muscle memory going too.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Would be a lot easier if people would stop playing games they suck at.

Numbers aren't looking good for this one. Lol.

[Jojoya]

Would be a lot easier if people would stop playing games they suck at.

Then people would never bother playing games.
You're going to suck for a while before you learn enough to get good. If players are not allowed to ever be bad, they'd have to quit before they got the experience they need to get good.

So I'll flip the reverse at you - it would be a lot easier if people who have bloated expectations regarding other players' skill would stop playing games intended as much for novice players as for veteran players.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Almost as if once you mastered both your class and the encounter the content that run over and over again becomes trivially easy. Just like with everything in real life.

People like to point of Ivalice or Dun Scaith for being good examples for mid-core content and while TRUE....As somebody whom ran those raids multiple times for glams, I'm going to straight up tell you, those raids are piss easy for me. Learning mechanics isnt hard when you repeat them over and over again when you memorize them. Even back when Dun Scaith gets circulated into Moogle Treasure Trove so people run those frequently, the fact that during that period where we have players freshen up on the mechs, the raid itself becomes trivial because everyone knows it.

I personally see the difficulty fine as it is. We have the Savages and EXs for people whom want that extra bit of challenge and we have the regular dungeon, trial content for the rest of the playerbase whom lets face it, is an MMO thats catered to the very casual audience. If people avoid wanting to be challenged or get better thats THEIR issue. No need to force it on to the entire playerbase.

[Midareyukki]

Almost as if once you mastered both your class and the encounter the content that run over and over again becomes trivially easy. Just like with everything in real life.

People like to point of Ivalice or Dun Scaith for being good examples for mid-core content and while TRUE....As somebody whom ran those raids multiple times for glams, I'm going to straight up tell you, those raids are piss easy for me. Learning mechanics isnt hard when you repeat them over and over again when you memorize them. Even back when Dun Scaith gets circulated into Moogle Treasure Trove so people run those frequently, the fact that during that period where we have players freshen up on the mechs, the raid itself becomes trivial because everyone knows it.

I personally see the difficulty fine as it is. We have the Savages and EXs for people whom want that extra bit of challenge and we have the regular dungeon, trial content for the rest of the playerbase whom lets face it, is an MMO thats catered to the very casual audience. If people avoid wanting to be challenged or get better thats THEIR issue. No need to force it on to the entire playerbase.

You bring up a pretty good point. Ultimately, when people make threads like these, do they expect content to remain challenging after beating it over and over to the point where it becomes predictable?

Because I'm all up for content to be challenging on-launch, or even remain challenging past that. But even before the nerfs, Ivalice Raids were pretty much a coinflip only because of the group you were with. And even then!

Basically, new players often contribute to the challenge of clearing stuff because someone messed up a mechanic, and thus stuff hits harder. Or it requires a lot more coordination than normal, and people aren't used to it. When you get used to it, those runs become so smooth they quickly turn boring.
And when I say "even then", it's because sometimes those new players make things more interesting because you get used to having to rescue people out of a bad situation. Meaning even that becomes predictable.

That isn't the devs' fault. It's not even our fault. It's just how it is. If you want something to be truly hard all the time, I think you want something that hits really hard, has a lot of health and is random all the time. Maybe not the enemy itself, but the situation. And I think I just described Deep Dungeon Deep Dives at that point :x

[Hurlstone]

Why do (Some) people avoid getting better at the game? I suppose its because not everyone plays for challenge. FFXIV is one of the more unique MMOs where its lore, story and characters are a key aspect of its identity, and thats something which obviously a lot of players have latched onto, more so then other narrative games. Its why I started playing in 2014, and why I stayed when I came back to the game in 2020. Of course that does not mean it cannot be a challenge, but it does lessen the need for a higher skill cap. Plus many people also play for other things, because they enjoy the crafting, glamming or social element. Even housing! (Which just makes how gated it is more of a shame.)

Personally speaking, I find the way FFXIV does dungeons and stuff and how we must ‘dance’ with every boss much more engaging then the group content of say ESO, SWTOR and even WoW. The problem also is that difficulty is kinda a… subjective thing. Not everyone finds healing the boring snooze job that this forum may claim, can completely grasp a raids new mechanics in just a few attempts or remember what to do in a trial release six years ago. As individually players we do not all have the same skill level, or will find it as easy to improve. I do not think that should negate harder content at all, but I do think people should not be punished or looked down upon for not wanting to play anything outside of story-related raids and stuff. These type of threads may have some good intentions, but they often do start from a place of almost elitism and looking down upon ‘casual’ players as if its a dirty word, or ended up that way. Its a similar venom targeted at those who play mobile games or Fortnite. Of course there is also the opposite that happens, but I find that a little rarer. Heck in all my years playing MMOs, complaints that ‘This game is to easy!’ or This game is too hard’ always appears like clockwork on their forums. The wider variety of player opinion and skill means there will never be a sweet spot where everyone is happy, and if by some miracle there was, it would soon be erased by the next patch of nerfs and buffs.

My opinion is there should be difficulty options for all players, and I do not think thats a rare thing from those of us who value casual content over hardcore. For example, I am a strong advocate that there should be more solo difficult content, like say a Hard New Mode+, and I may be in the minority here but I think Variant/Criterion Dungeons are a great idea that should be expanded on in future content. I also think harder modes of say story raids and dungeons should be implemented for those seeking more then what is offered. On a related note, I think Dungeons and stuff should have perhaps a bit more variety, such as the non-combat ‘dance’ in Bardam's Mettle (It boggles my mind how we never had more bosses like that…) or other instances where the goal is not just ‘kill said boss’.

I like to think if this was Dark Souls or a single player game where challenge had always been its core component I would be more critical about casual element, but given the narrative nature of the game and its place as an MMO… is it really such a sin if it does lean a little more casual?

[Theox]

Slightly off topic but do y'all remember that msq in endwalker when we had to play as a soldier and people literally created threads about it being too hard and the devs nerfed it? So yeah, what are we talking about again?

[Raoabolic]

Slightly off topic but do y'all remember that msq in endwalker when we had to play as a soldier and people literally created threads about it being too hard and the devs nerfed it? So yeah, what are we talking about again?

Hey, no subscription left behind! Unless they didn't pay up... *rubs tip of thumb and index finger together*

[ronibosch]

Slightly off topic but do y'all remember that msq in endwalker when we had to play as a soldier and people literally created threads about it being too hard and the devs nerfed it? So yeah, what are we talking about again?

Ah man, they nerfed it? I love that duty, so much so that it's probably my favorite part of the expansion as a whole.

Regarding the main topic of this thread, I know a lot of the optional dungeons are still challenging compared to their MSQ counterparts. Still, even they get easier over time thanks to repetition, as Atelier and Midare have stated. I will admit that the game isn't as punishing as it used to be, thanks to nerfs, higher average iLvl, and other adjustments (like how skills refresh after a wipe).