Why do people avoid getting better at the game?

[Raven2014]

Not to mention the possibility of the dev team needing to account for the lowest common denominator of player skill, and therefore needing to basically strip jobs of the mechanics and decision-making that some players desire in order to accommodate. But that's something of a subjective issue, these days.

Savage and Ultimate has consistently getting harder, so I don't see where this LCD claim coming from. You're just projecting because you want the "easy" content to become harder to carter your taste. The game clearly draw 2 circles for people to stand in, and everyone is free to visit the others, but you don't get to make the other territory yours.

Class and system streamlining is unfortunately are always part of the growing pain for any game that stay around too long and get too big. Name me one main stream game that have been around a long time and is exception to this, I'm all ears. So this particular complain certainly is valid, but also it is like complain about why we don't look as good as we getting old.

This is one of the reason that no matter how much I like FF14 I don't wish for it to go on forever. Eventually the game will buckle under its own weight and all resource will simply have to go into maintenance instead of creating something news. I would much prefer we hit a reset point with a completely new MMO from SE eventually.

Uh, from what I've heard Ifrit (Hard) when it was relevant actually *was* harder than modern Cognazzo. I wasn't around then, but I've heard it was actually fairly challenging when it was released (as was Titan(Hard)!)

Don't compare level early leveling dungeons to level cap dungeons. Compare it cap to cap.

I admit, I had far more trouble in those early 2.0 trials than I do in the modern now. But I bet it had more to do with circumstance rather than the actual difficulties:

- The game was relative new, and everyone was equally no0bs. Titan was hard for me because I misunderstood how attack was telegraphed in FF14, which was almost the complete opposite how it was in WoW. Case in point, how often you see a sprout struggle and failing a mechanic that you can do with your eye closed? Me, all the time. Also during my down time I'm a MMO tourist who also try out other games. My experience in doing savage/ultimate often means squat, and I would fail simple mechanic that the veterans of those games think "easy".

- There weren't a lot of seasoned veteran to carry a failing group. You come in and you have to pull your weight, there is no "doritos" to follow that will get you to the end of the fight even if you don't understand the mechanic.


It's not a question of the player skill, it's about the institution knowledge you accumulate. This is what people who so good at this game and demand the "casual" content to be harder don't understand. As the veteran with that ingrained knowledge about the game, to make the casual content challenge enough to entertain them would also make said content pretty much prohibitively difficult for its actual intended audiences.

[kaynide]

Uh, from what I've heard Ifrit (Hard) when it was relevant actually *was* harder than modern Cognazzo. I wasn't around then, but I've heard it was actually fairly challenging when it was released (as was Titan(Hard)!)

Don't compare level early leveling dungeons to level cap dungeons. Compare it cap to cap.

It was more to do with the mechanics being very punishing and/or a need to grind out gear just to survive their limit breaks. This was a time when you needed to get ultima jewelry and use vit+ materia on your white mage just to have enough hp. And/or grind tomestone gear just to get a specific amount of HP.

Also…In essence, Ifrit was a DPS check, Titan was a “watch the ground” check, and Garuda was a Tank check (had to provoke and hold the Chirada/what’s her face away from each other).

I’m over simplifying, but that was kind of the beginning of insta-kill with no rez for mistakes and/or tank swaps.

With current trials, it is (and should be) entirely reasonable to clear them as long as you do mechanics right with the minimum ilvl required for the fight. In the Wild West days of FFXIV, this wasn’t necessarily a thing. Materia (and grinding out materia) played a much bigger role.

[Shinkuno]

No they don't. Are you going to seriously sit there and tell me tell me that Sastasha is harder than the Lapis Manalis, or that Ifrit on NM is harder than Cagnazzo?

The only thing about dungeons that gets easier are handling large trash pulls, and this happens as a result of getting additional abilities that help sustain the tank, and burn mobs to a crisp. That's it.

As far as dungeon bosses go, the difficulty just depends on the type of mechanics the devs decide to throw at the players, and how punishing they are for failing. A good example of a dungeon being less difficult than the dungeon before it would be The Aitiascope in comparison to Ktisis Hyperboreia. I've witnessed the last two bosses of the latter just wreck parties who are not prepared, thinking they'll just skate through these two goons. I'm not saying that the mechanics for these bosses are crazy difficult, but they do require you to pay attention to what is going onscreen instead of tunnel visioning in your rotation.

Difficulty is also relative. Just because something is easy for you, does not mean it is for everyone. Quit gaslighting.

If people actually used their buttons instead of still spamming cure 1 in lv90 content, then yes current dungeons would be a million times easier than mid ARR/HW dungeons where you are strippe off all your tools. When i get a tank that knows what to do, i never have to use half my kit cause its just that easy

[Gemina]

If people actually used their buttons instead of still spamming cure 1 in lv90 content, then yes current dungeons would be a million times easier than mid ARR/HW dungeons where you are strippe off all your tools. When i get a tank that knows what to do, i never have to use half my kit cause its just that easy

What are you even talking about? This sounds like you're regurgitating the thoughts of the echo chamber, but lack of experience healing in dungeons has you making any sense of it. The more abilities all the roles get, the less a healer has to rely on GCD heals to sustain the group. Ease of trash pulls in dungeons is a team effort. Tanks using their skills mitigate damage, healers using oGCD skills to help sustain while dealing damage, and DPS figuring out ways to optimize their kits to burn the trash quickly so healers don't burn up their resources and end up having to spam GCD heals. It has always been this way, with the difference between low level and later dungeons are players have more skills to accomplish. this. In lower level dungeons, healers have no choice but to use GCD heals because they do not have enough oGCD abilities to take care of the job.

Besides, trash pulls don't have mechanics. The dungeon difficulty I'm referring to belongs to the bosses. What later dungeons have a lot more of than earlier ones are a guaranteed wipe if the healer eats dirt and there is not another job like RDM or SMN to raise them. If you're a healer in these instances, I would worry a lot less about getting a tank who knows what to do, and make sure you're staying on your own feet. If you die, the wipe is pretty much entirely on you.

[kevin_satron]

Jokes on you, the dungeons get significantly easier over time. They practically play themselves.




I don't understand why they're so focused on making the dungeons so braindead - Do they genuinely expect a new wave of 70yo grandpas to suddenly start playing XIV AND make it all the way to Endwalker!?

At what point do they stop to think "Hey, are we just making everything so simple, that we're losing out on the whole 'Fun' part of the game?" - Are they so focused on minimalizing any abrasiveness in the ability to play and give SE money, that they just don't even attempt to make it an actually engaging game?

I'd think that if they were even concerned with reducing friction, they could start on all of the other frustrating bits the game suffers from as well, like the insane amount of button prompts, and individual clicks for so many things.

People make this weird assumption that 'Casual' means they don't want to play a game at all. Why do I have to do extremes to have fun? Why do I need to be told to go do Ultimates to feel engaging gameplay?

I feel like something's eventually going to give. Maybe it'll just be that we're going to finally be taken over by clubs and Yoshi will stop making dungeons altogether. Teleport you straight into the club, every trial rewards you with a new dance emote.

The dungeons has been braindead since ShB (or should i say post SB). And i think the difficulty is good enough for casual players that only focus on main story. They did this since ShB because of trust system, no need complex mechanics like in extreme or savage, just very easy awareness mechanics (dodging AoE, stack marker, etc).

[MistakeNot]

Jokes on you, the dungeons get significantly easier over time. They practically play themselves.

No. No, they don't get easier. On the contrary the later dungeons in the game are significantly harder than the early ones.

Nowadays there is really only one mechanic in the dungeons, and that is to avoid AOEs. In the later dungeons you have much less time to react to AOEs, and often less safe space to find.
In some cases the time to react becomes so short that unless you have already memorized where to stand there is sometimes practically no chance to avoid an AOE.
This is not the case in the early dungeons - there you usually have a chance to avoid the AOE attacks no matter where you stand when the boss starts casting.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I do most of the hard content in this game and I tend to scale above average in savage at my best. I used to be in the top 20%, sometimes top 5-10 depending on fight but I haven't done as well in recent tiers.

That said,


Some people simply don't have the capability of getting better than where they currently are.



I'm atrocious at fighting games, no matter how many guides and videos I look up. I suck at fps games, despite understanding how the mechanics in them work.



Not everyone can be good at a specific thing. Doesn't mean they can't still get some enjoyment out of it.

[Velvet_Lunarfang]

I do most of the hard content in this game and I tend to scale above average in savage at my best. I used to be in the top 20%, sometimes top 5-10 depending on fight but I haven't done as well in recent tiers.

That said,


Some people simply don't have the capability of getting better than where they currently are.



I'm atrocious at fighting games, no matter how many guides and videos I look up. I suck at fps games, despite understanding how the mechanics in them work.



Not everyone can be good at a specific thing. Doesn't mean they can't still get some enjoyment out of it.

Maybe but if you come into a fight and drag everyone down because you aren't good in it then you are dragging the rest of the party down and making their lives miserable

[Leifei]

I do most of the hard content in this game and I tend to scale above average in savage at my best. I used to be in the top 20%, sometimes top 5-10 depending on fight but I haven't done as well in recent tiers.

That said,


Some people simply don't have the capability of getting better than where they currently are.



I'm atrocious at fighting games, no matter how many guides and videos I look up. I suck at fps games, despite understanding how the mechanics in them work.



Not everyone can be good at a specific thing. Doesn't mean they can't still get some enjoyment out of it.

I think you're short changing yourself. Just like how you got good in raiding in FFXIV, you can do the same with fighting games and shooters. It just takes practice. Repetition is the mother of skill.

[Imora]

Would be a lot easier if people would stop playing games they suck at.