Why do people avoid getting better at the game?

[Melorie]

Uhm ... I don't think those comparison make any sense though? The reason WoW and FF14 are often compared because they're direct peer to peer, they're comparable. E.V.E is built from the ground up to be around PvP, it's not a feature, it's the game itself. BDO also based on a completely different model and approach, like ... it's almost built as an antithesis to FF14 in the sense it entire focus on open world playing, so of course it allow world PvP. Even that, I know plenty of BDO players wish they don't have to deal with it. Doing it different doesn't mean doing it better. At least WoW give you an opt-out clause on PvE server, whether BDO you will have to content locked yourself if you don't want PvP.

I agree with you. My point was mostly regarding people speaking as if World PvP itself is a bad design decision that should not exist where that notion actually limits creativity when it comes to developing MMOs. I don't feel like it would work with FFXIV regardless.

[Tigore]

Ok. Finally something to work with. I was beginning to lose hope with the actual main topic getting pushed off. I can agree with possibly making trusts the story mode difficulty since they don't have roulette rewards anyways. As for some expert adjustments, I do have some input to give for it.

The first Troia boss we technically can't call a boss. It is more of a glorified sequence of trash pulls. Maybe it tests if the healer and DPS brings stuff to the tank, but regular trash wall to wall pulls already should do that.

The second boss for the latest dungeon looks intimidating with the updated teleport strikes, but is made to look like a joke with the optimized strat. All the AoE slashes are X patterns, so the center is safe for about 70 - 90% of the time. The way to bump this up in challenge is to have the AoE sometimes alternate to a cross to force players out of the center. The circles used to denote the order of teleport can be altered to show X's and +'s to give enough visual clues.

[MementoKoishi]

You guys complain about people in MSQ being bad, when there are people that somehow reached P8S and can't remember their spread position. I've seen people fail the same exact mechanic on 30 pulls, and these are the "good" people who can "clear" savage.

[Kolaina]

You guys complain about people in MSQ being bad, when there are people that somehow reached P8S and can't remember their spread position. I've seen people fail the same exact mechanic on 30 pulls, and these are the "good" people who can "clear" savage.

Yeah, but those people are failing on a higher tier so it gets glossed over

[Payadopa]

That's why we need difficulty settings. But in XIV it's either ridiculously easy or go find 7 like-minded people to prog with. It's frustrating, honestly. I'm happy CD exists and that the new DD is actually threatening from the 11th floor onwards. Baby steps but still.
We already have [Easy] and [Very Easy] in solo duties. We need more middle ground and good(!) tutorials.

[RitsukoSonoda]

it creates a divide in the community between good players and bad players, giving good players a reason to be elitist, and therefore creating a toxic enviroment

Also the bad players aren't satisfied with the things that were easily given to them by the game then start queuing for harder content expecting everyone else to carry them.

[Jojoya]

Ok. Finally something to work with. I was beginning to lose hope with the actual main topic getting pushed off. I can agree with possibly making trusts the story mode difficulty since they don't have roulette rewards anyways. As for some expert adjustments, I do have some input to give for it.

The first Troia boss we technically can't call a boss. It is more of a glorified sequence of trash pulls. Maybe it tests if the healer and DPS brings stuff to the tank, but regular trash wall to wall pulls already should do that.

The second boss for the latest dungeon looks intimidating with the updated teleport strikes, but is made to look like a joke with the optimized strat. All the AoE slashes are X patterns, so the center is safe for about 70 - 90% of the time. The way to bump this up in challenge is to have the AoE sometimes alternate to a cross to force players out of the center. The circles used to denote the order of teleport can be altered to show X's and +'s to give enough visual clues.

The problem goes beyond what mechanics are used in a dungeon, though.

For players to get better, they need to:
1) want to get better (instead of just wanting rewards).
2) have the physical ability to get better.
3) have resources that assist them with getting better.

The big problem is #1. How do you get players to want to improve? They're here to have fun playing a game. Put a series of obstacles with ever increasing difficulty in their way and it stops being fun to them. They quit instead (or they find ways to cheat). That's not good for a MMO that has ongoing operating costs.

Considering so much discussion revolves around better skilled players basically stuck in the same content as less skilled players for leveling alt jobs, perhaps we're tackling the problem the wrong way.

Maybe what is really needed is a second leveling path with much harder difficulty for those who want the challenge for their alt jobs. Increased XP would be the compensation for the increased difficulty.

Players who use the normal leveling paths but later decide they're ready to improve could then use the harder path to improve their skill. The increased XP may or may not be useful to them but in the situations where it isn't some other form of compensation could be found.

[Tigore]

Yeah. Ransu from the last page was suggesting that we use the Trust and Duty Support system to keep the difficulty easy for players who don't want the difficulty.
The trusts may need some adjustments like its own roulette reward and a way for players to group up into it. The reward may have to be lower to encourage the higher one to be used.

As for the rewards... I haven't noticed discussion for it yet. Currently, the red tomes are most valuable and the green cap ones can actually be less valuable >.> Maybe just faster capping of both tomestones would be enough to encourage players to try? Course that also means some players will complain they have nothing to do afterwards capping faster >.>

[Eraden]

The problem goes beyond what mechanics are used in a dungeon, though.

For players to get better, they need to:
1) want to get better (instead of just wanting rewards).
2) have the physical ability to get better.
3) have resources that assist them with getting better.

The big problem is #1. How do you get players to want to improve? They're here to have fun playing a game. Put a series of obstacles with ever increasing difficulty in their way and it stops being fun to them. They quit instead (or they find ways to cheat). That's not good for a MMO that has ongoing operating costs.

Considering so much discussion revolves around better skilled players basically stuck in the same content as less skilled players for leveling alt jobs, perhaps we're tackling the problem the wrong way.

Maybe what is really needed is a second leveling path with much harder difficulty for those who want the challenge for their alt jobs. Increased XP would be the compensation for the increased difficulty.

Players who use the normal leveling paths but later decide they're ready to improve could then use the harder path to improve their skill. The increased XP may or may not be useful to them but in the situations where it isn't some other form of compensation could be found.

Mao falls under category 2. So much so that Mao scheduled to has appointsments with brain surgeon two months from now.