Why do people avoid getting better at the game?

[DixieBellOCE]

How about not being toxic? Being toxic is a choice.

Doesn't that go both ways.

Casuals saying 'elitism is toxic' then refusing to even learn to play the game and expecting others to drag them through content.

Elitists saying casuals should get good and stop dragging them down.

Both parties are toxic.

[Raven2014]

Doesn't that go both ways.

Casuals saying 'elitism is toxic' then refusing to even learn to play the game and expecting others to drag them through content.

Elitists saying casuals should get good and stop dragging them down.

Both parties are toxic.

I don't see casual make daily protest and complain on here about how they're need to get gut.

[Amarande]

it creates a divide in the community between good players and bad players, giving good players a reason to be elitist, and therefore creating a toxic enviroment

Yep, exactly this.

A game pretty much has three paths open to it over time (provided it does not die before that ... maybe that's why it feels like so many chill games die? Less "games die because they were chill" and more "games were remembered as chill because they didn't last long enough to come to the inevitable dilemmas that ruin it all"?) as the skill gap between players widens.

The trouble is there usually isn't a lot of solution to it by the time you realize there is a problem.

Plan A: You make a point to hang onto everyone, which creates a situation where there's a big enough gulf between the most casual players (who, when one considers their primary and maybe only purpose in playing the game is to unwind and destress, can't really be knocked too hard for not putting a significant priority in skill improvement, especially skill improvement for its own sake) and the most hardcore players (for whom getting better and better at the game is a goal of itself, and done for its own sake).

Upshot: Casual and hardcore players end up at permanent loggerheads, creating an endless stream of conflict and contumely in the community. Intermediate players get caught in the middle (especially since it's always harder to actively design for intermediate skill than for the endpoints), feeling like they have no place in either camp.

Plan B: You give in to the loud voices of the hardcore and raise the skill floor over time to force people to improve or leave so that there's more common skill ground among strangers.

Upshot: People, especially when a game gets to be a long runner so that the skill frog boiling is gradual enough, quit, often under particularly grumpy terms because they probably liked the parts of the game that they were able to handle before they hit a wall of either brick or simply of more effort than they deem enjoyable to put in given their goals in playing the game. Often, stereotypical talking points (true or not) about the mindset of hardcore gamers are trotted out in the process. The community is STILL noted as tense and conflict ridden as a result (especially when the reason for quitting isn't because players can't, but because the work required is no longer enjoyable, which usually results in shots back from the hardcore crowd about how the complainant is lazy and wants people to put in effort on their behalf).

Plan C: You give in to the voices of the people who want relaxed fun and nerf the difficulty so that it's easy enough that less dedicated players don't drag down the more dedicated too much.

Upshot: Dedicated fans complain that the game no longer rewards their dedication, in other words often the reverse of the previous scenario (it used to challenge them, now it doesn't). They take to soapboxes and complain that their dedicated support is not rewarded and the game caters to people that don't put in effort. Although this USED to be just a minority of usually easy to dismiss people, in the world of streaming video, they often reach out to their sycophants about this grievance, resulting in many people (who were often not actually fans of the game itself at all but only of their favorite streamer) ditching the game and Biz worrying about the PR implications of having major influencers dissatisfied with the product.

Plan D: Apparently we need it, but what?

[sagacious]

it creates a divide in the community between good players and bad players, giving good players a reason to be elitist, and therefore creating a toxic enviroment

Zepla quit the game because the Ultimates she did wore her out causing burnout. People complained mechanics were to easy, so ffxiv made them harder and this is the result. I mean why do I need to have muscle memory to complete these savages and Ulitimates? The elitist will burnout reducing there numbers reducing the elitist attitudes and toxicity.

[RitsukoSonoda]

it creates a divide in the community between good players and bad players, giving good players a reason to be elitist, and therefore creating a toxic enviroment

Also the bad players aren't satisfied with the things that were easily given to them by the game then start queuing for harder content expecting everyone else to carry them.

[AnnRam]

what's the problem with a lot of people not being good ?

Being mediocre despite playing for months/years isn't fun.
That's why every job got nerfed to oblivion in terms of "difficulty."
That's why after 4 expansions healers jobs are using 2 skills in order to don't fall to sleep while running regular content.

[moroarda]

what's the problem with a lot of people not being good ?

The issue isn't people not being good, it's people being bad at a critical mass.

If you get a full group of mediocre players that only kind of understand their jobs it'll take you a little extra time to clear any given content. Not good, but not catastrophic.

If you get a full group of bads, you won't clear. That's a problem. This is only worsened when you get one poor, competent player surrounded by bumbling idiots - they're now doomed by proxy.

I don't care if people aren't optimal, but they should be trying because if not they're telling everyone else to pick up their slack and that's not okay.

I'm not here to carry someone else, if SE wants that from me they have my bank info.

[R041]

I feel like we're at a point where Yoshi needs to legitimately just consider a 'Story Mode', where they're not forced to do Dungeons, Trials, Duties. The game is just getting worse because we're sacrificing engaging challenges for the lowest common denominator.

Maybe let them do the combat content without rewards, and give them an action button or something that kills shit quickly.

I don't mind if they have some kinda mode that lets them just enjoy the story, why would I care? I just wanna play a fun game, so if they wanna play a Visual Novel, then so be it. But don't rework the whole damn game because of it.

[TaleraRistain]

I feel like we're at a point where Yoshi needs to legitimately just consider a 'Story Mode

Aka, Duty Support

[Bad_Luck]

I feel like we're at a point where Yoshi needs to legitimately just consider a 'Story Mode', where they're not forced to do Dungeons, Trials, Duties. The game is just getting worse because we're sacrificing engaging challenges for the lowest common denominator.

Maybe let them do the combat content without rewards, and give them an action button or something that kills shit quickly.

I don't mind if they have some kinda mode that lets them just enjoy the story, why would I care? I just wanna play a fun game, so if they wanna play a Visual Novel, then so be it. But don't rework the whole damn game because of it.

Oooh, sooooo dramatic. The game is being ruined, oooooh! *lmao*