Why do people avoid getting better at the game?

[SieyaM]

Because of the nature of combat in this game, everything is going to become easy after repeated clears and attempts no matter the mechanics no matter the job design. Jobs all have a rotation that you follow without deviation and all battles have a script that is also followed without deviation. Once you figure out how the fight is played out and can perform your rotation during that script then it's over, it will never be challenging again unless you are grouped with people that do not know it.

[R041]

Variants are also designed so players can do them solo. You don't need to be a WAR. I've done them as MNK and NIN

NIN and MNK without Variant Cure? Actually the trash don't really hurt at all, and the bosses have like 95% avoidable damage. So I can see that. BUT.. Still. Shit was WAY too easy.

Because of the nature of combat in this game, everything is going to become easy after repeated clears and attempts no matter the mechanics no matter the job design. Jobs all have a rotation that you follow without deviation and all battles have a script that is also followed without deviation. Once you figure out how the fight is played out and can perform your rotation during that script then it's over, it will never be challenging again unless you are grouped with people that do not know it.

The problem is that encounter design and classes have been adjusted over time to the point SE has min-maxed everything for us already. There's basically no adjustment to be made on your end, and you can slam your face against the keyboard for all dungeon trash.

Why make the trash fun, when you can just make the trash even trashier? Just.. Remove it at this point, we'd all be happier for it tbh. Give me a dungeon where we just do 3 back to back bosses and I'd be fucking HYPE. It's like the only reason we're even keeping trash around is to give Tanks something to do. Because we already know you barely need to manage boss positions anymore.

It's like they just gut shit, but still hold onto it's corpse just because.

[Hurlstone]

Why do (Some) people avoid getting better at the game? I suppose its because not everyone plays for challenge. FFXIV is one of the more unique MMOs where its lore, story and characters are a key aspect of its identity, and thats something which obviously a lot of players have latched onto, more so then other narrative games. Its why I started playing in 2014, and why I stayed when I came back to the game in 2020. Of course that does not mean it cannot be a challenge, but it does lessen the need for a higher skill cap. Plus many people also play for other things, because they enjoy the crafting, glamming or social element. Even housing! (Which just makes how gated it is more of a shame.)

Personally speaking, I find the way FFXIV does dungeons and stuff and how we must ‘dance’ with every boss much more engaging then the group content of say ESO, SWTOR and even WoW. The problem also is that difficulty is kinda a… subjective thing. Not everyone finds healing the boring snooze job that this forum may claim, can completely grasp a raids new mechanics in just a few attempts or remember what to do in a trial release six years ago. As individually players we do not all have the same skill level, or will find it as easy to improve. I do not think that should negate harder content at all, but I do think people should not be punished or looked down upon for not wanting to play anything outside of story-related raids and stuff. These type of threads may have some good intentions, but they often do start from a place of almost elitism and looking down upon ‘casual’ players as if its a dirty word, or ended up that way. Its a similar venom targeted at those who play mobile games or Fortnite. Of course there is also the opposite that happens, but I find that a little rarer. Heck in all my years playing MMOs, complaints that ‘This game is to easy!’ or This game is too hard’ always appears like clockwork on their forums. The wider variety of player opinion and skill means there will never be a sweet spot where everyone is happy, and if by some miracle there was, it would soon be erased by the next patch of nerfs and buffs.

My opinion is there should be difficulty options for all players, and I do not think thats a rare thing from those of us who value casual content over hardcore. For example, I am a strong advocate that there should be more solo difficult content, like say a Hard New Mode+, and I may be in the minority here but I think Variant/Criterion Dungeons are a great idea that should be expanded on in future content. I also think harder modes of say story raids and dungeons should be implemented for those seeking more then what is offered. On a related note, I think Dungeons and stuff should have perhaps a bit more variety, such as the non-combat ‘dance’ in Bardam's Mettle (It boggles my mind how we never had more bosses like that…) or other instances where the goal is not just ‘kill said boss’.

I like to think if this was Dark Souls or a single player game where challenge had always been its core component I would be more critical about casual element, but given the narrative nature of the game and its place as an MMO… is it really such a sin if it does lean a little more casual?

[Gemina]

Having a third DPS is the EXACT purpose of this, if you do not require a healer you bring another DPS.

But sure, jump over to Materia with your level 90 healer and lets do this.

Well, it would seem DC travel is not possible for me outside NA DCs, and I cannot visit Materia, nor you Aether. What I will do is at least provide the dungeons I planned on going into. I also never planned to make this impossible. Only difficult to obtain the clear without heals.

ARR - Wanderer's Palace HM: The last boss uses doom that can only be cleansed by healing to full. The effect can be avoided if not looking at the boss when he casts the ability.
HW - The Vault: Charibert simply requires heals as his auto attack damage is constant on the tank throughout the fight. Probably still possible as WAR since you do have Equilibrium and Raw Intuition, plus Invuln going into this fight. I was really, really curious about this fight in particular.
SB - The Burn: Pretty much self-explanatory. Without heals, Rime Wreath spam, which is unavoidable will eventually kill the DPS jobs and the healer. Mist randomness can make dodging a little tricky. The tank might be able to sustain themselves, but will be rough taking the creature down once everyone else is dead.
ShB - Amaurot: Last boss is similar to Mist Dragon threat level.
EW - The Dead Ends: Need to avoid mechanics from first boss. If inflicted, not having Esuna will kill the player. Same can be said for any boss that uses a doom mechanic really. Skilled players won't have too much issue.

TBF, just this morning I was in DF for 90 dungeon and we 3 manned it when the healer D/C and never got the healer replaced. WAR absolutely does not need a healer in any of the 90 EW dungeons and can go 1 tank / 3 DPS pretty easily. This isn't a brag, just that any tank with a basic understanding of their toolkit can probably do without a healer if they were so inclined.

WAR healing is ridiculous, I'll back step a little bit and admit that for sure. They can even do heavy trash pulls without much assistance from the healer. However, putting skilled players together will always make things easier. That is a given. The thing is, you're run of the mill average PUG party is going to have wide range of player skill levels. Majority of groups are going to need a healer to fix mistakes, and that's the point I'm trying to get across. How much they are needed for dungeons is going to vary from group to group.

[R041]

...

Using ARR Hard and HW is cheating, they actually have status effects. I thought the challenge was to do SB - EW lol

Also because tank kits are just way too juicy now.

It's funny, because I gave that challenge a few pages ago. Go do Wanderer's Palace Hard as a normal group, sync. And just tell me if it's fun.

[Renalt]

I'm the third DPS. Its just going to be a healing class. It should be pretty obvious why a 3rd DPS cant be used because we still have to do the dungeon under normal requirements. Not undersized. Dont worry, I'm not just going to be standing there watching. Don't like it. Too bad. I'll be on soon.

Yo what server you guys doing this? I kinda want to be a DPS in this group. The fury between you two is doing it for me and now I just want to experience it first hand.

[Zeastria]

There are disorders - that actually can effect how well you play and how fast you learn!
Many disorders effect short term memory and reaction time.. (learning disabilites) ect..

[R041]

There are disorders - that actually can effect how well you play and how fast you learn!
Many disorders effect short term memory and reaction time.. (learning disabilites) ect..
- Seems like people always forgets that

We don't forget. We just don't cater every activity in the world to halt to the whims of the disabled. We give them appropriate avenues when available, but not everything can conform to every disability.

That's why I was saying it'd be fine if they made a specific 'Story Mode', and sure if you're going to use Trust alright fine, maybe also let the Trust cheat in some way and always keep your HP topped off or something.
But.. Maybe don't also wash the whole casual experience to cater to the lowest common denominator. They can add story mode cheats and reduce rewards. IDGAF.

Hell, look at XVI - They're literally doing exactly that. The gameplay is still challenging, but they also give you a sort of story mode cheat for auto-casting/attacking/dodging.

[Silver-Strider]

Using ARR Hard and HW is cheating, they actually have status effects. I thought the challenge was to do SB - EW lol

Also because tank kits are just way too juicy now.

It's funny, because I gave that challenge a few pages ago. Go do Wanderer's Palace Hard as a normal group, sync. And just tell me if it's fun.

Just use BLU, you'll be fine.
The goal is to only Tank those Dungeons without the Healer Healing and if they're going to go outside the scope of the argument in bad faith by suggesting dungeons that were not included in the original argument, I see no reason to not do the same in turn.

[SieyaM]

NIN and MNK without Variant Cure? Actually the trash don't really hurt at all, and the bosses have like 95% avoidable damage. So I can see that. BUT.. Still. Shit was WAY too easy.




The problem is that encounter design and classes have been adjusted over time to the point SE has min-maxed everything for us already. There's basically no adjustment to be made on your end, and you can slam your face against the keyboard for all dungeon trash.

Why make the trash fun, when you can just make the trash even trashier? Just.. Remove it at this point, we'd all be happier for it tbh. Give me a dungeon where we just do 3 back to back bosses and I'd be fucking HYPE. It's like the only reason we're even keeping trash around is to give Tanks something to do. Because we already know you barely need to manage boss positions anymore.

It's like they just gut shit, but still hold onto it's corpse just because.

This isn't just for dungeon trash, Savage and even ultimate become easy to the people who run them because they are never changing. Once a team learns the patterns and knows how to execute their rotation while performing them, it all becomes an easy grind.