Dueling Advice (Monk v Dragoon/other jobs... mostly Dragoon)

[Nadda]

Salutations

I've just made the terrible mistake of trying to get into PvP after 7 years of playing. I've had a loose interest in PvP but it changes every expansion so I haven't really tried to dedicate a lot of time to it.

I'm a White Mage main generally but I wanted to try something new so I've been playing a Monk purely for PvP since it feels fun to press the buttons that do the damage.

I know that dueling isn't really a major focus for many people.. but I figure if I can learn individual match ups the better I can be in team play as a monk instead of barreling into danger.

I've been dueling with a good friend of mine who is a PvPer but he mains Dragoon.
I have been improving as a Monk since I started playing iunno maybe a week ago?

But in terms of success say I fight my friend 10 times he'll win 7 and I'll win 3 maybe.

My wins never feel solid though. Or rather I got to put so much more planning into when to use my stun in conjunction with my combo or try and pop off my Enlightenment + LB just to beat him.

And dueling him it's like he does so much more damage than me, that if I don't like pop Riddle of Earth/Earth's reply early or spam recuperate I'm gonna die... but if I do that then I run out of MP and I die anyways.

I try using a guard at the right times but his LB also kills me instantly.

I try "Closing the gap" as he says but it always feels like I'm walking into a spear blender. I know my attack speed and stuff go up if I charge into him but like we're normally right next to each other and if I give him room to breathe the meager damage I do to him just evaporates.

So in short it's like my Dragoon buddy has my number and I'm not playing or defending in a consistent way to beat him. I'd like to learn how to play better and I'd also like to learn other matchups besides Dragoon. (Also if there are any dueling clubs for Chaos Data center I'd love to join and learn )

[Kansene]

The game isn't balanced for 1v1 at all, so your best bet would be to simply switch to a job that is a better duelist. Dunno what else there is to be said as 1v1 is pretty much a niche within a niche.

It's good to learn what other jobs can do, and what your own is capable of, but dueling won't show you the true strength of many jobs, which is how they can aid, support, and help set up kills for others.
Both dragoon and monk have their own strengths and weaknesses that simply don't show in duels.
Monks are amazing at chasing and sticking to targets, and their lb can break guard and set up devastating kill windows, but you won't be seeing that in a duel, where the dragoon's pure damage is all that matters.

[Nadda]

That's true. Never thought of it that way.
Though I still think it be useful to learn what jobs can do one on one - at least in my case since I am very good at chasing and sticking to targets as you said. Which means I need to know who to isolate and when to pounce on them. If they can survive my volley of attacks - if they are within my range (can I kill them if I land this) Or can they cause me issues.

Anyways thank you for your honest words and feedback

[brancinaed]

I have some winning tips for you!
One of Monk's great strengths is that 1.8second gcd with Wind Resonance. By dancing around line of sight at the structures you can peek out then hide before the opponent can strike back. This is really hard, but just one extra strike can eek out a win in duels. It's also vital to keep this buff up so it should be a high priority.
Second, practice inputs for perfect combo on the dummy and only ever use Rising Phoenix on Phantom Rush and Enlightenment! They are +5000potency and +4000potency while every other weapon skill is 3000 or less, so not using R.P. on them is like losing half a gcd.
Rising Phoenix - Phantom Rush - Six-sided Star - Rising Phoenix - Enlightenment - Meteodrive+Pressure Point is 61000 potency thus can quickly surprise kill someone.
It helps me a lot to think of the inputs in rhythm but my inputs would simply be "Q - 1 - 2 - Q - 3 - R"
You don't always need to be executing this combo, but it's worth knowing how to do the most burst damage possible.

Oh, and the opening should be thunderclap -> Bootshine -> six sided star -> rising Phoenix -> enlightenment because you want to get those cds rolling.

[Nadda]

That's good to know my friend taught me to combo my enlightenment with six-sided star....

As I said in fights it feels like I'm trying to set myself up to have my moves align at the right moment to strike.

[Divinemights]

Dueling in FF14 post 6.1 only works when it is same job against same job
It is a test of the CD management.

[Nadda]

to be fair to Square... in the most unfair way possible.
There hasn't really ever been a consistent pvp skill set.

That said even in its current state - - I don't want to attribute my loses to just throwing my hands up and saying I as a Monk stand no chance against a Dragoon.
Even if our toolset and what we are supposed to do with those tools are completely different.
Call it a gut feeling but I know if I play smart I can make it even. As I said before out of 10 matches I'll win maybe 3 of them.
I won't feel satisfied until I can at least make a good effort in making it 5/5 or at least 4 out of 5.

I find that even if the deck is stacked against me being able to come out on top by a margin just a tiny margin, makes me feel good about myself. That way when I'm in a frontline or cc I can single out a guy who isn't as prepared and go Bang! BOP! Zing! Zoom! KABOOM! yakno?

[Kathleen_]

I don't duel at all but it sounds like you lack a fundamental understanding of both jobs. For DRG specifically you have 4 mechanics to worry about: his increased defense, his decreased defense, his backflip, and if somehow a DRG is still alive against a MNK until he gets his LB, then the LB.
Geirskogul increases the DRG's damage but also increases his damage taken. Realistically in a 1v1 scenario he'll probably always pair this window with Horrid Roar, which increases his defense by 50%. Just keep hitting him to keep the GCD rolling because MNK is very dependable on it. Use recuperate the very single moment you lose 15k health of more, any less is a waste, and any later is a waste of server ticks regenerating MP. Ideally your strongest burst combo outside of LB is RP>Enlightenment>SSS>RP>PR>ER. Phantom Rush proccing PP is an immediate 27k burst, adding in everything else it amounts to a 49k burst in 2GCDs plus whatever you have stored in Riddle of Earth. Try hitting this when he doesn't have his defense buff up. You also should be guarding the moment you see the backflips, because that is what enables his big burst. It's as telegraphed as your big combo, which speaking of is generally RP>PR>RP>Enlightenment>SSS>LB. This should pretty much kill most jobs in the game with few exceptions, DRG not being one of them. RP is very telegraphed so make sure you don't waste all of your burst on guard. Also the placement of SSS is very important: if you stun before the knockback, there's a small window before LB where you can get a purify/recuperate off if you smash the buttons hard enough, letting even squishy ranged jobs survive. If you stun AFTER Enlightenment however, that window is gone and it goes straight into the LB's animation lock. If he somehow survives all of this (aka you fucked up something, let's be honest) and gets his LB, you will have to keep guard for LB and tank WWT with RoE.
Again I don't duel at all but realistically MNK has an incredibly minor chance of losing to DRG so keep up at it and remember to keep the GCD rolling like if it were PvE.
Edit: I just thought about it but can't you just run away from DRG LB in a duel? lol Where are the duelers when you need them.

[Nadda]

None of this was particularly helpful. Outside of Guarding when they use backflip. It's true I don't know what the Dragoon is capable of and I'm still learning Monk... but even I know that not everything is going to go as smoothly as doing something in the correct sequence = ez win. That type of logic isn't very helpful. Obviously, if you do everything right and your opponent does everything wrong you'll win. There wasn't much insight to glean from this.
Also, you can't just run away from the DRG LB all that happens is you go from being either dead to only having a sliver of health left.
I should know since one of the first things I tried was running away from the very obvious blue circle thing following me. You're only chance to survive is with Guard. My friend who is the Dragoon I'm dueling taught me that much.
I'm new I'm not stupid and would appreciate not being treated as such. I came here to learn, after all, I know my experience and knowledge is lacking.

[Kathleen_]

Buddy MNK is one of the best 1v1 jobs and DRG realistically has no way to beat it if played properly, not perfectly. It's literally do the correct sequence = ez win job. You are 100% doing something wrong. lol