AT THIS POINT in World of Warcraft

[Liam_Harper]

If wow is so good why dont you go back there and leave us alone?

Already did.

WoW is simply a better game than FFXIV right now. Yes, it's a mess. It has a lot to fix. But it's a lot of fun and has thousands of details and QoL that ff14 lacks. I already have a list of things I want to do in WoW that will probably keep me occupied for a year or two.

I'll compare the two because they are comparable. They're both competing MMO's at the top of the market. FF14 has lost all sense of fun. Island Sanctuary is not designed to be fun, it's designed to be rewarding in an efficient manner without forcing the player to spend time on it. Jobs are not designed to be fun, they're designed around simplicity, ease of numerical balance and 2 min bursts. Verminion and FATEs are a joke compared to Pet battles and WQ's. Dungeons are definitely not designed to be fun. They're designed for easy, fast, efficient roulette chores.

It's just so sterile, watered down, excessively streamlined and lacking substance here. If people enjoy 1500 tomes and 5 min dailies then great, I'll be off having fun.

[R041]

Yes, let’s compare DF to EW. As of now, how much content is in WoW endgame?

Even if all of that is true, (which it likely is) - The content itself is basically non-repeatable except for POTD 3. We also really shouldn't just be comparing end-game, but how engaging and active the casual content is.

We could literally copy and paste every piece of content from XIV we got in 6.x and give it to WoW, and unfortunately it would just feel better in WoW because it would generally have more engaging gameplay. You can't neglect that the 'MSQ'/Questing is extremely coop friendly. Along with the open world generally having dynamic and engaging content.

If you compare the class system, give me POTD in WoW, and it'll feel more engaging and rewarding as basic combat content because I can work on new class comps and ideas. Where XIV I just pick a class and AFK my brain 1, 2, 3.

I also know that if I want to play with newbies, or friend that has never played WoW, I can jump in and run basically anything and everything synced to them. So it's generally more engaging and they're not just sitting by themselves watching text dialog cutscenes with angry fist emotes.

[MintnHoney]

If wow is so good why dont you go back there and leave us alone?

Because YoshiP secretly hates MiQote, so he has secretly commissioned the entire internet, by ritually sacrificing one of his favorite pinky toe rings, a dill pickle, and 4 extra sour lemon warheads, to make you suffer for your catgirl with non-believers and dissenters.

[Midareyukki]

Because YoshiP secretly hates MiQote

:^) you wrote Hrothgar wrong. Understandable mistake, it's the bigger, better cat~

/j

[Moonsprite]

Even if all of that is true, (which it likely is) - The content itself is basically non-repeatable except for POTD 3. We also really shouldn't just be comparing end-game, but how engaging and active the casual content is.

We could literally copy and paste every piece of content from XIV we got in 6.x and give it to WoW, and unfortunately it would just feel better in WoW because it would generally have more engaging gameplay. You can't neglect that the 'MSQ'/Questing is extremely coop friendly. Along with the open world generally having dynamic and engaging content.

If you compare the class system, give me POTD in WoW, and it'll feel more engaging and rewarding as basic combat content because I can work on new class comps and ideas. Where XIV I just pick a class and AFK my brain 1, 2, 3.

This is all a matter of opinion. More engaging gameplay in WoW is an opinion and doesn’t mean there isn’t lack of content, it just means for you in particular you find WoW content more engaging. I do feel WoW does a bit better job at finding a middle ground for challenging content than ffxiv, but it’s still repetitive, not new, and to me gets old pretty quickly. How is WoWs overworld content of once a week boss kill, mindlessly grinding cobalt rep, or the same kill this WQs engaging? Or do you mean the cooking pot? Ffxiv has Hunts and fates, the difference is your time gives you currency to buy what you want instead of random chances at loot. WoW is getting better with this, but I wouldn’t say it’s more engaging to me when time spent for rewards varies greatly with the potential of getting nothing at all for my efforts. I know lots of people love the great vault. I despise it because I’d rather buy what I need than hope that I get something.

Other than healing in WoW, compared to ffxiv the jobs/classes play really similarly. Gcd is less in WoW because of haste but at least in ffxiv there are ogcds that fill in the wait time. Seriously though what tab target mmo has really engaging combat rotations?

I think the reason there are so many people feeling distraught in Ffxiv right now has to do with the fact we all got used to this massive addition of relic content, like new gear, new zone, new relics, new hairstyles, glamours, minions, and mounts that came with relic content in the last two expansions. Those things were spread out into deep dungeon and other content like island sanctuaries. It just feels like a void because it wasn’t given to us in a way that felt massive and epic. I hope next expansion they do a more eureka/Bozja relic system, but most likely it isn’t happening this expansion at all. I don’t think WoW is going to give that to players either. Their big addition was a trading post that allows players to do random content old or new for a currency to buy cosmetics. It’s something to do but it’s only 3 hours once a month.

[PikoAliapoh]

What's really funny is how all of the WoW type complaints started happening with XIV when everyone left WoW and migrated to this game. Would be really interesting if someone could pull forum data and correlate complaints about savage, ultimates, and high-end raiding content with the WoW exodus. I'd expect there's some kind of statistically significant correlation.

XIV's never been about having max. ilvl for end game content. It's always been accessible to a wide range of skillsets and players, but there's been such an emphasis on that stuff in the forums ever since ShB/EW.

[MintnHoney]

:^) you wrote Hrothgar wrong. Understandable mistake, it's the bigger, better cat~

I know you were joking, but you're not wrong at all.

[R041]

...

I think that's a super fair take. WoW itself is designed in a way to keep you busy with it's most basic mechanics, where XIV doesn't push that on you at all. So depending on the player it can feel better or worse when you're out of patch cycle content.

What's really funny is how all of the WoW type complaints started happening with XIV when everyone left WoW and migrated to this game. Would be really interesting if someone could pull forum data and correlate complaints about savage, ultimates, and high-end raiding content with the WoW exodus. I'd expect there's some kind of statistically significant correlation.

XIV's never been about having max. ilvl for end game content. It's always been accessible to a wide range of skillsets and players, but there's been such an emphasis on that stuff in the forums ever since ShB/EW.

Wat, I mean it's accessible in general like being able to do most content with purchased gear. But you're still raiding and trying to get BiS.

Also super accessibility was not so true with ARR-HW. And these discussions about homogenization and simplification have been going back since 4.0. Nothing's changed there.

I would say the discussions may have gotten more aggressive because the homogenization has gotten even deeper these past 4 years especially, and that's mostly coming from XIV players. If I see anyone arguing otherwise, it's usually newer players that quit WoW that are defending the watered down systems in comparison to how WoW is the extreme opposite.

I wish we'd learn from each other and take what WoW does right, and what XIV does right. But we can only really see black and white.

You kinda sound like you're from the exodus, but I could be wrong. Or at least from Shadowbringers. lol

[PikoAliapoh]

You kinda sound like you're from the exodus, but I could be wrong. Or at least from Shadowbringers. lol

Never played WoW. Been playing XIV since HW. Used to main MCH and now maining the 2 button rotation WHM. I completely understand how job skills have been watered down and gotten mind-numbingly boring and easy. I was referring more to the general scope of posts you see on the forums nowadays about high-end content, ultimates, time between savages being dropped, twitch streamers using mods, etc. etc. etc. etc..... None of those things seemed to be such a high priority or discussed as aggressively/vehemently on the forums years ago.

But what do I know, I'm just here to RP and go fishing /shrug

[R041]

Been playing since HW. Used to main MCH and now maining the 2 button rotation WHM. I completely understand how job skills have been watered down and gotten mind-numbingly boring and easy. I was referring more to the general scope of posts you see on the forums nowadays about high-end content, ultimates, time between savages being dropped, twitch streamers using mods, etc. etc. etc. etc..... None of those things seemed to be such a high priority or discussed as aggressively/vehemently on the forums years ago.

But what do I know, I'm just here to RP and go fishing /shrug

Yeah that's fair. Sorry if I was a jerk. lol

It definitely is getting compacted even further, and I think because Endwalker is a carbon copy of Shadowbringers with less repeatable combat content, it's why people are getting frustrated. It's lack of combat content in general, because we basically replaced Bozja with Island Sanctuary. So then what else do you really use BiS on. Variant? It certainly does nothing for POTD. lool (I don't chase BiS anyway)

I'm a player like you describe, I haven't raided since Stormblood and I don't really care about chasing BiS anymore because I don't see the need with the current design philosophy.

High-end content and grind I'm pretty sure have always been a hot topic on the forums. You're right about Twitch and Mods, but that's because those are pretty new to XIV in general. Almost nobody ever streamed day 1 prog, and obviously the mod scene is very new. So I wouldn't so much as call it an exodus problem. But maybe some of the WoW players streaming their prog attempts pushed us a little further to start streaming more?

We're at a weird point where I think a lot of people look at gear and go "Why does this even exist anymore?" - Because SE could literally just implement a shitty linear borrowed power for each expac and it would be the same experience. Hell we could just turn it all into a Materia grind where all visual gear is just glam. Basically is already.

We also look at all of our classes and wonder why half of them even exist. We could cull them, add 1-2 of the abilities from that other class and it would be exactly the same.