AT THIS POINT in World of Warcraft

[MintnHoney]

If wow is so good why dont you go back there and leave us alone?

Because YoshiP secretly hates MiQote, so he has secretly commissioned the entire internet, by ritually sacrificing one of his favorite pinky toe rings, a dill pickle, and 4 extra sour lemon warheads, to make you suffer for your catgirl with non-believers and dissenters.

[Moonsprite]

Yes, let’s compare DF to EW. As of now, how much content is in WoW endgame? Limited WQs every 3 days and once a week, a community feast for casuals that takes 15 minutes, a dragon siege for casuals that takes 15 minutes, the same mythic + dungeons (4 are recycled old content dungeons), same raids from launch, renown that’s actually just rep x3 to exalted, open world elemental invasions for casuals to change gear to tier, Dragonriding that can be finished in one day (but can farm appearance options—can’t use any other mounts in DF), and the new casual trading post I log in to finish once a month. The new crafting in WoW is also casual content. The PvP is the same except now people can casually queue for rated games solo. So WoW has become really catered to casual players, but they don’t have more content that ffxiv. Just because WoW has a more structured daily/weekly hamster wheel doesn’t mean it’s more content.

FFXIV from 6.3 added Variant/criterion dungeons, deep dungeon, ultimate, new alliance raid, relics, new MSQ, Tataru adventures, new MSQ trial/extreme, new dungeon, dol/doh relics, beast tribes. DF and EW are basically the same with content and things to do. The only difference in my mind is that WoW has mythic+ dungeons with actual relevant gear. Other than that both games have dailies, like roulettes, pvp, hunts, can do fates for bicolor gemstones, farm relics, do crafting. It’s no different and both games are casual oriented this expansion. I saw your other casual content is the problem, but if it is why do you like Dragonflight so much better lol?

Right now I log in once a month in WoW for the trading post for about 3 hours to finish the monthly reward. Once a week I log into WoW for crafting quests. I finished everything needed to gear my main in WoW, finished all my renown, have my JC maxed and only working on knowledge. I log into ffxiv everyday and I still haven’t finished everything in ffxiv I need to do. So imo ffxiv has more to do than WoW atm.

[R041]

Yes, let’s compare DF to EW. As of now, how much content is in WoW endgame?

Even if all of that is true, (which it likely is) - The content itself is basically non-repeatable except for POTD 3. We also really shouldn't just be comparing end-game, but how engaging and active the casual content is.

We could literally copy and paste every piece of content from XIV we got in 6.x and give it to WoW, and unfortunately it would just feel better in WoW because it would generally have more engaging gameplay. You can't neglect that the 'MSQ'/Questing is extremely coop friendly. Along with the open world generally having dynamic and engaging content.

If you compare the class system, give me POTD in WoW, and it'll feel more engaging and rewarding as basic combat content because I can work on new class comps and ideas. Where XIV I just pick a class and AFK my brain 1, 2, 3.

I also know that if I want to play with newbies, or friend that has never played WoW, I can jump in and run basically anything and everything synced to them. So it's generally more engaging and they're not just sitting by themselves watching text dialog cutscenes with angry fist emotes.

[Moonsprite]

Even if all of that is true, (which it likely is) - The content itself is basically non-repeatable except for POTD 3. We also really shouldn't just be comparing end-game, but how engaging and active the casual content is.

We could literally copy and paste every piece of content from XIV we got in 6.x and give it to WoW, and unfortunately it would just feel better in WoW because it would generally have more engaging gameplay. You can't neglect that the 'MSQ'/Questing is extremely coop friendly. Along with the open world generally having dynamic and engaging content.

If you compare the class system, give me POTD in WoW, and it'll feel more engaging and rewarding as basic combat content because I can work on new class comps and ideas. Where XIV I just pick a class and AFK my brain 1, 2, 3.

This is all a matter of opinion. More engaging gameplay in WoW is an opinion and doesn’t mean there isn’t lack of content, it just means for you in particular you find WoW content more engaging. I do feel WoW does a bit better job at finding a middle ground for challenging content than ffxiv, but it’s still repetitive, not new, and to me gets old pretty quickly. How is WoWs overworld content of once a week boss kill, mindlessly grinding cobalt rep, or the same kill this WQs engaging? Or do you mean the cooking pot? Ffxiv has Hunts and fates, the difference is your time gives you currency to buy what you want instead of random chances at loot. WoW is getting better with this, but I wouldn’t say it’s more engaging to me when time spent for rewards varies greatly with the potential of getting nothing at all for my efforts. I know lots of people love the great vault. I despise it because I’d rather buy what I need than hope that I get something.

Other than healing in WoW, compared to ffxiv the jobs/classes play really similarly. Gcd is less in WoW because of haste but at least in ffxiv there are ogcds that fill in the wait time. Seriously though what tab target mmo has really engaging combat rotations?

I think the reason there are so many people feeling distraught in Ffxiv right now has to do with the fact we all got used to this massive addition of relic content, like new gear, new zone, new relics, new hairstyles, glamours, minions, and mounts that came with relic content in the last two expansions. Those things were spread out into deep dungeon and other content like island sanctuaries. It just feels like a void because it wasn’t given to us in a way that felt massive and epic. I hope next expansion they do a more eureka/Bozja relic system, but most likely it isn’t happening this expansion at all. I don’t think WoW is going to give that to players either. Their big addition was a trading post that allows players to do random content old or new for a currency to buy cosmetics. It’s something to do but it’s only 3 hours once a month.

[R041]

...

I think that's a super fair take. WoW itself is designed in a way to keep you busy with it's most basic mechanics, where XIV doesn't push that on you at all. So depending on the player it can feel better or worse when you're out of patch cycle content.

What's really funny is how all of the WoW type complaints started happening with XIV when everyone left WoW and migrated to this game. Would be really interesting if someone could pull forum data and correlate complaints about savage, ultimates, and high-end raiding content with the WoW exodus. I'd expect there's some kind of statistically significant correlation.

XIV's never been about having max. ilvl for end game content. It's always been accessible to a wide range of skillsets and players, but there's been such an emphasis on that stuff in the forums ever since ShB/EW.

Wat, I mean it's accessible in general like being able to do most content with purchased gear. But you're still raiding and trying to get BiS.

Also super accessibility was not so true with ARR-HW. And these discussions about homogenization and simplification have been going back since 4.0. Nothing's changed there.

I would say the discussions may have gotten more aggressive because the homogenization has gotten even deeper these past 4 years especially, and that's mostly coming from XIV players. If I see anyone arguing otherwise, it's usually newer players that quit WoW that are defending the watered down systems in comparison to how WoW is the extreme opposite.

I wish we'd learn from each other and take what WoW does right, and what XIV does right. But we can only really see black and white.

You kinda sound like you're from the exodus, but I could be wrong. Or at least from Shadowbringers. lol

[PikoAliapoh]

You kinda sound like you're from the exodus, but I could be wrong. Or at least from Shadowbringers. lol

Never played WoW. Been playing XIV since HW. Used to main MCH and now maining the 2 button rotation WHM. I completely understand how job skills have been watered down and gotten mind-numbingly boring and easy. I was referring more to the general scope of posts you see on the forums nowadays about high-end content, ultimates, time between savages being dropped, twitch streamers using mods, etc. etc. etc. etc..... None of those things seemed to be such a high priority or discussed as aggressively/vehemently on the forums years ago.

But what do I know, I'm just here to RP and go fishing /shrug

[EnnCee]

most of ffxiv players are actually in the game and playing it and not on the forums posting. I happened to see this when I logged in looking for responses to the new deep dungeon which is frustrating and engaging at the same time. maybe some few of you have forgotten how wow treated their workers, devs, and player base. I haven't. it will be a long time before I relax my opinion of wow.

people who whinge about ffxiv not being difficult enough obviously just hang around on the perifery; they need to go volunteer for a few savages, extremes, etc. that's honestly content that I will never see because I'm the casual who finds tons to do in the game, appreciates the active opportunities to improve my gameplay in deep dungeons, and believes the poster above who described DF as something sounding like that awful patch that gave us "go nowhere" korthia.

I have kept one wow subscription active since beta because wow handed me opportunities for good friends and good times, but sentimentality won't make wow better. until they get rid of bobby kotick and make sure debiasi stays far away, I won't be heading back.

[Liam_Harper]

LMAO. No, they arent. WOW is so primitive in its design that it ENCOURAGES stalkers, it is poorly moderated, poorly managed, has more bugs than a flea infested warehouse, cannot manage a universal day night cycle, cannot even manage a calendar to show events in local time, has piss poor privacy measures, relies on three and only three endgame areas, raid, pvp, m plus, the open world is a joke, the story looks like a smashed mirror put together with sellotape, the list of deleted and wiped content is HUGE, their GMs cannot and do not take active part in moderation, their crafting is a sick parody laced with RNG , they allow vendors , npcs and questgivers to be ganked because "wurld pee vee pee" which NO ONE cares about or gives a rats fart for, the graphics are old , dated and quite frankly horrible, their classes are laced with RNG, racials tied to an idiotic, outdated, hackneyed faction war no one gives a crap for and hasnt for years, their communication is non existent, their vaunted "community council" has accomplished NOTHING, they have a PTR that is ostensibly for testing and feedback..said feedback of course goes into the proverbial black hole as they listen to NONE OF IT...how many times have they been warned about problems and ignored them?

FFXIV is literally worse on most of this or straight up doesn't even have it. Notorious for enabling stalking, no event calenders, no real endgame besides raids, no open world, a story that makes no sense, dead PvP, dead crafting, even less communication. Sure, WoW's a mess in many ways, but let's not pretend FFXIV is better.
The real difference between WoW and FFXIV however is a lot of WoW is fun and FFXIV is sterile and boring.

most of ffxiv players are actually in the game and playing it and not on the forums posting.

Most of ffxiv players are playing the game. That's obvious, they're ffxiv players?

What posts like this fail to realize is all you see in the game are those who still play the game, but you don't see the former players who decided "eh, this game isn't for me" and ditched it. Complainers are a minority in that most people silently leave if they don't like a game. Complainers are a sort of an in-between who dislike aspects of a game but see potential in it and leave feedback in hope it could see improvement one day. For every one complainer there's usually a whole crowd of other people who felt the same and simply left. This is why most companies value negative feedback far more than white knighting and empty praise.

When complainers give up and leave too, it's usually a very bad sign because it means the players who once saw potential now have no hope. And I've noticed a huge number of names on the forums who used to leave feedback have faded away over Endwalker.

[PikoAliapoh]

What's really funny is how all of the WoW type complaints started happening with XIV when everyone left WoW and migrated to this game. Would be really interesting if someone could pull forum data and correlate complaints about savage, ultimates, and high-end raiding content with the WoW exodus. I'd expect there's some kind of statistically significant correlation.

XIV's never been about having max. ilvl for end game content. It's always been accessible to a wide range of skillsets and players, but there's been such an emphasis on that stuff in the forums ever since ShB/EW.

[Rhysati]

What's really funny is how all of the WoW type complaints started happening with XIV when everyone left WoW and migrated to this game. Would be really interesting if someone could pull forum data and correlate complaints about savage, ultimates, and high-end raiding content with the WoW exodus. I'd expect there's some kind of statistically significant correlation.

XIV's never been about having max. ilvl for end game content. It's always been accessible to a wide range of skillsets and players, but there's been such an emphasis on that stuff in the forums ever since ShB/EW.

Oh that's just silly. People have been saying that the expansion cycle is extremely formulaic and boring for several expansions now. It has only gotten worse with time.