What can SE learn from Bioware's failing Star Wars MMO?

[Eekiki]

I think it boils down to smart use of the IP. BioWare failed to capitalize on the popularity of the Star Wars franchise, and FFXIV 1.0 failed to capitalize on the popularity of the Final Fantasy franchise.

TOR should've been Mass Effect Online. It'd be about as popular, and woulda saved them some royalty cash. Of course, I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan, but while playing TOR all I was ever reminded of was Mass Effect.

[Amherst]

Awww I really enjoyed the smuggler storyline, I loved hunting Skavak and getting Flashy back haha D:

Yeah, it was great. The problem is that act two and three fell apart. Everything after defeating Skavak was just so boring.

[Nix]

Yeah, it was great. The problem is that act two and three fell apart. Everything after defeating Skavak was just so boring.

Yeah, I agree!

It was a nice twist at the end, but like everything post-skavak and before the twist was pretty balls ; ; I found it hard to continue.

Atleast we got Flashy back!

[Tinks]

Ya know, I was just thinking about the OP and title of the thread, and just had to throw this out there..

I don't think SE could possibly learn anything from Bioware. In fact, this thread really should be on TOR's general forums titled "What Bioware could learn from SE on how to save an MMO". But I think the forum mods would lock/delete it before it even got a single reply.

I've said it many times. When XIV launched, I was not a happy customer at all. It was when SE took action, publicly admitted their mistakes, and made good with the people who purchased the product by giving us a free year while they fix it that kept me.

Most other companies would give some line about product not meeting expectations, pointing to market trends and using language that investors like to hear. SE came out and as gamers, told their customers publicly that the product doesn't live up to their expectations, nor that of the franchise, and that they WILL make it better. And, much like a lot of other people I'm sure, I kinda rolled my eyes and said whatever...

Until they actually did it, and involved us in every step of the process.

It really boils down to customer service ya know. Treat your customers good, and they will reward you by purchasing your product/service. Fail to do that, and people will go where they feel they are being treated like a person, not a subscription.

THIS. I haven't been playing consistently for the last year+ but this is why I continue to follow whats happening with FFXIV and why I reactivated a couple of months ago. I never gave up on them after they publicly admitted their mistake and started engaging the players to try to fix it. If nothing else, I commend them for how they've handled the bombing 1.0 and how they've conducted themselves since then. I have every faith that Yoshi P will give us a game that SE can be proud of with 2.0, and until then I'm willing to deal with the random stupid remnants of 1.0.

As for SWTOR...My husband and I really enjoyed it as a co-op RPG. There's a serious lack of co-op RPGs in the market and SWTOR had tons of content. But as others have said, it never forces you to group, and very rarely were we really challenged unless we were doing something way above our level. In my opinion, that is SWTOR's biggest failing. Its not a social game, its a single player game.

[Duelle]

Most other companies would give some line about product not meeting expectations, pointing to market trends and using language that investors like to hear. SE came out and as gamers, told their customers publicly that the product doesn't live up to their expectations, nor that of the franchise, and that they WILL make it better. And, much like a lot of other people I'm sure, I kinda rolled my eyes and said whatever.

Until they actually did it, and involved us in every step of the process.

It really boils down to customer service ya know. Treat your customers good, and they will reward you by purchasing your product/service. Fail to do that, and people will go where they feel they are being treated like a person, not a subscription.

It's less about customer service and more about resources and how much control we're talking about, not to mention the weight of the franchise in question. In the case of TOR, I'm sure Bioware would be willing to fix things, or at least do the visible shake up in staff and resources SE pulled for XIV. But Bioware is not holding the reins. EA is holding the reins. And EA cares more about their investors and is willing to cut their losses instead of a) interacting with the public and b) put forth the resources to fixing the mistake. This is known, and why people cringe whenever EA is mentioned or involved.

Sure, depending on how XIV does after 2.0 hits, it may set a precedent for companies to say "well, if we play our cards right we might be able to fix a poor product while keeping a portion of the people interested in the product until it gets fixed" rather than pulling the plug and washing their hands. Of course, I think only those who are their own entity would be able to take that course of action. Blizzard may be able to do something like that (though I fear Vivendi has much more control over them than anyone is willing to admit), but guys like Bioware, Mythic, and so on are at the whim of their corporate overlords. =/

[Payadopa]

I've been playing the game since the Alpha, so it's kinda hard for me to forget about all the crap i've been through. lol
But it sure is nice to see the game evolve.

I've been playing since Alpha, too. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. ^^

[Zyph]

TOR should've been Mass Effect Online. It'd be about as popular, and woulda saved them some royalty cash. Of course, I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan, but while playing TOR all I was ever reminded of was Mass Effect.

Wow, thinking about it, I would play the shit out of a Mass Effect MMO.

[Cichy]

All the new MMOs like SW, GW2, Rift, etc try to create games for people with short attention spam and rely on their initial sales to make profit. Look at GW2, it's same shit rehashed over again but their advertising campaign makes it seem like it's MMO Jesus himself would design. People now days buy into that stuff, they want to be told what they should buy. How many times did you buy a game after reading a review and said wtf the reviewer was thinking?

Now we live in a time where there is a conflict between the MMO generation which is mostly 25 years old + and younger players. New players want to be able to access everything at all times and get the best stuff as fast as possible. They want to breeze through content at a pace no developer can keep up with. While older players want to relive their past experiences.

I think with XIV people are looking for more of a personal experience we've seen in XI. Set aside all the endgame drama, in my opinion XI fostered a community that's been closer than any other MMO I"ve played. That's why it was my favorite game. You felt like you knew people. You exped with them, teamed up on occasions, or engaged in some sort of conflict.

This is what lacks for me in the new MMOs. You can solo to cap without interacting with anyone. The dynamic events encourage teaming up but to me its like playing with a bunch of NPCs. With older MMOs people were much more invested because they strong community and long term goals.
Now people play MMOs almost like they play Modern Warfare, they want to turn it on, play instantly and drop whenever they feel like it. Any content that doesnt fit that model in their eyes is worthless.

[Seif]

All the new MMOs like SW, GW2, Rift, etc try to create games for people with short attention spam and rely on their initial sales to make profit. Look at GW2, it's same shit rehashed over again but their advertising campaign makes it seem like it's MMO Jesus himself would design. People now days buy into that stuff, they want to be told what they should buy. How many times did you buy a game after reading a review and said wtf the reviewer was thinking?

Now we live in a time where there is a conflict between the MMO generation which is mostly 25 years old + and younger players. New players want to be able to access everything at all times and get the best stuff as fast as possible. They want to breeze through content at a pace no developer can keep up with. While older players want to relive their past experiences.

I think with XIV people are looking for more of a personal experience we've seen in XI. Set aside all the endgame drama, in my opinion XI fostered a community that's been closer than any other MMO I"ve played. That's why it was my favorite game. You felt like you knew people. You exped with them, teamed up on occasions, or engaged in some sort of conflict.

This is what lacks for me in the new MMOs. You can solo to cap without interacting with anyone. The dynamic events encourage teaming up but to me its like playing with a bunch of NPCs. With older MMOs people were much more invested because they strong community and long term goals.
Now people play MMOs almost like they play Modern Warfare, they want to turn it on, play instantly and drop whenever they feel like it. Any content that doesnt fit that model in their eyes is worthless.

I agree with both of those points but at the same time I think you also nailed why people don't commit to MMOs like they used to. Simply developers don't give us that much to commit to any more. They're so afraid that people will be intimidated by systems content and difficulty that excessive streamlining is being done on all fronts.

Somehow I still have faith in Japanese developers because they're the most likely to relate to the committed niche market that honestly hasn't gone anywhere simply because there's nowhere to migrate to.

[Ingolf]

All the new MMOs like SW, GW2, Rift, etc try to create games for people with short attention spam and rely on their initial sales to make profit. Look at GW2, it's same shit rehashed over again but their advertising campaign makes it seem like it's MMO Jesus himself would design. People now days buy into that stuff, they want to be told what they should buy. How many times did you buy a game after reading a review and said wtf the reviewer was thinking?

Now we live in a time where there is a conflict between the MMO generation which is mostly 25 years old + and younger players. New players want to be able to access everything at all times and get the best stuff as fast as possible. They want to breeze through content at a pace no developer can keep up with. While older players want to relive their past experiences.

I think with XIV people are looking for more of a personal experience we've seen in XI. Set aside all the endgame drama, in my opinion XI fostered a community that's been closer than any other MMO I"ve played. That's why it was my favorite game. You felt like you knew people. You exped with them, teamed up on occasions, or engaged in some sort of conflict.

This is what lacks for me in the new MMOs. You can solo to cap without interacting with anyone. The dynamic events encourage teaming up but to me its like playing with a bunch of NPCs. With older MMOs people were much more invested because they strong community and long term goals.
Now people play MMOs almost like they play Modern Warfare, they want to turn it on, play instantly and drop whenever they feel like it. Any content that doesnt fit that model in their eyes is worthless.

After playing both GW2 beta weekend events, I can sincerely say that Anet is heading into the right direction with MMOs for several reasons.

1) It's free to play (with cosmetic items available with micro transactions)

2) It does away with the holy trinity by making all classes fulfill each role (and still all classes feel unique)

3) It promotes exploration and doesn't give you arbitrary quests with inconsequential quest dialogue.

4) It promotes players working together toward a common goal. (Which surprised me, as it actually worked)

5) It takes the best from best selling MMOs without copying them. (There's nothing wrong with using a well loved system)

I'm not going to come on here and say that Guild Wars 2 is perfect, but I personally believe that they are taking steps in the right direction. They made huge changes between the first and second beta weekend based on player feedback, and it was actually refreshing.