What can SE learn from Bioware's failing Star Wars MMO?

[hrdndv]

Personally, I hugely dislike the talk about "modern day MMOs" with "dynamic worlds" which are "accessible". I feel like they're taking the magic out of the MMOs. They're not worlds you can explore at your own pace, slowly progressing to face the bigger adventures. They're just lobbies that teleport you from one content to another, one group to another, taking you by the hand and spoon feeding you rewards. People say this is the future and "old schoolers" will just have to live with it, but we're seeing one clone failing after another and it has to mean something. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind there being casual games that don't require any commitment or any "work" from the player, but why do all MMORPGs have to be identical?

Here's an interesting article recently published about the issue, I warmly recommend it if you're interested in this subject.

Yep. It takes storyline to immerse the player. You have to feel you are advancing... achieving something. I agree it can't be spoon fed. If it is too easy, it isn't immersive. You have to have clues that are meaningful, not directions to go to the next x on the map. The player needs to figure things out. This does not mean Ifrit Extreme. Hard battles are not all that interesting... just something to rack up... like a bear carcass nailed over the fireplace. Hard battles are not fun. Challenging battles are fun. Like trying to figure out the best way to assassinate the princess in Skyrim without going to jail. It isn't easy ... but when you successfully pull off some wild assassination, you feel immersed and happy. Doing it your own way is fun. Having to redo something that everyone else has already done with no originality, no choices, no challenges, or having to do Ifrit with 7 people who have done it 100 times before and are just helping you because you can't do it alone .... that isn't fun. Doing a quest that just says "go here" "go there" isn't fun. What made all the FF games fun was figuring out how to whup all the big bosses effortlessly so you were the top dog. Making complicated crystal weapons that cost 10,000,000 gil was not the fun part. Killing the same water beast 10000 times was not the fun part. The fun part is figuring stuff out, putting on cool armor and weapons, being the top dog, and collecting complete sets of really cool stuff. Doing the Easter Egg quest is the closest thing in the game so far that has a complete story line with a real conclusion. All the other quests feel up in the air, incomplete. The relic weapon thing doesn't seem to have any theme to pull it together into a coherent story. The prophecies thing is not developing into an extended story. At this moment, there should be some coordinated story tying together the invasion, the satellite, and impending doom... instead we are told on destroying the transmitter that that has just condemned us to destruction. Where is the response to this? We should be scavanging the land for relics to take to central headquarters where scientists pour over every artifact we find. There should be a chalkboard in this center that outlines what they are doing to delay disaster. There should be impossible machines being assembled day by day. There should be activity in the world. The feel of desperation should be obvious. We need story...

[Eekiki]

wall o' text

Take a breath! Crikey!

You're right, though.

[hrdndv]

[QUOTE=Velhart;730099]All I think can be said in the video above. The only games I see succeeding and staying in competition with WoW (not over succeeding it) is Final Fantasy XIV 2.0 and Guild Wars 2. FFXIV 2.0 will definitely caters to a certain group of people (Japanese and JRPG players), and the idea of international servers is one of the reasons that FFXI was a huge success for a long time.

I would add The Elder Scrolls Online. I know I will play it and hope for the best. I think it has the potential to be the MMO of the future.

[Duelle]

I would add The Elder Scrolls Online. I know I will play it and hope for the best. I think it has the potential to be the MMO of the future.

That game is going to fall flat on its face. If this were 1998, Elder Scrolls Online would be incredible and a welcome addition to the MMO roster that was pretty much hogged by Everquest. You need sandbox, super timesink design to make ESO actually work. That's not going to fly in this day and age.

Make it too theme park and it won't feel like an Elder Scrolls game. Make it too time-sinky and it'll scare off the normal people that may have developed interest in the series thanks to Oblivion and Skyrim.

[Vanguard319]

So, Who thinks the Elder Scrolls Online will fail?

[Eekiki]

So, Who thinks the Elder Scrolls Online will fail?

I do, and I'll tell you why.

Mods.

The main reason why Bethesda RPGs are so popular is because of how easy they make it for people to customize their experience. When you throw online play into the mix, you must put stringent restrictions on how players are allowed to modify their experience in order to keep things balanced. Without the freedom to mod, the game will be a mediocre hack n' slash, and people will grow bored of it quickly.

[NadienKirisame]

I do, and I'll tell you why.

Mods.

The main reason why Bethesda RPGs are so popular is because of how easy they make it for people to customize their experience. When you throw online play into the mix, you must put stringent restrictions on how players are allowed to modify their experience in order to keep things balanced. Without the freedom to mod, the game will be a mediocre hack n' slash, and people will grow bored of it quickly.

Also don't forget the standard way it works for Bethesda games... game comes out then you wait a month for the moders to fix all the bugs in the game so you can actually play it right :P

Though since Bethesda isn't the ones actually making the game... who knows :P it might actually work... hehe

The cat is bemused =-.-=

[Astorlok]

1.0 will never be a vague memory.
It left a bitter taste in evertbody's mouth.

I agree that it should never be a vague memory. If it's a vague memory, then it's possible for them to repeat those mistakes. And NOBODY wants that.

[Astorlok]

I can't let this go by without comment...
How exactly do you justify the statement that "Star Wars", a franchise that debuted in 1977 and still enjoys broad market appeal and new additions to it 35 years later, is "just a fad" while "Final Fantasy" which released in 1987 and enjoys comparatively narrower market appeal but still is a continuously updated franchise is not a fad but a cultural touchstone?

And as to MUDs dying off... You do know what killed them right? MMORPGs, why play text only when Everquest has actual characters. What will kill the MMORPG will be it's replacement not some new fad but genuine innovation to the genre, like full immersion VR or some such nonsense

I don't think VR is going to make any appearances any time soon. Considering the way tech is developing, I would expect AR games to appear in our future. Hell some of them have already appeared, just look at some of the stuff on the 3DS and PSP Vita. I think it would be pretty killer to come home from work, pick up a stick-like peripheral and head out into my local woods or into my backyard and quest for a bit.

[Astorlok]

I don't know if it will fail, or not. There are some things I like, such as no mods. Sure it won't have user-generated fixes but it also won't have My Little Pony weapons and armor. I think the lack of mods will help improve the lore to this game and keep it more immersible. The TES games have an incredible amount of lore and it's actually interesting lore, none of this "The elves are pointy-eared jerks who only like wine and dancing and trees, Dwarves are bearded drunks that all live underground and are crotchety towards everything." Instead they have races that are either human or animal or elf, but completely different from one another. Khajit are desert nomads who travel far and wide only to be treated like thieves and filth for being excellent night time scouts (and thieves, but let's not split hairs). Dunmer are ash skinned elves who are split between nomads who traverse the ash covered steppes, or live in civilization along the coast. Imperials are Romanish, but instead of being the top dogs, they were dominated and whipped into submission by the Aldmeri Dominion: A faction run mostly by Altmer. Mods can absolutely expand on these, but they generally detract from it. More often than not have I seen mods such as "Turn horses into Motorcycles" "Bronies Unite! MLP Swords!" "Nude Mods for all your Tentacle Rape Fantasy Needs!" I think having it controlled by the developers is a smart move in this respect.

There are some things I take issue with, such as forcing actual classes on characters. Since Morrowind the TES games have been all about doing whatever you want whenever you want. Sick of swinging that axe around? Start using that bow. Sick of the bow? Start summoning daedra to kill your enemies. Want to be the one making that landing blow? I see you have an axe in your inventory.... Forcing people to use traditional classes in a TES game is just not a TES game anymore. I think THAT is what is going to turn some people away.