What can SE learn from Bioware's failing Star Wars MMO?

[Asiaine]

Well, I haven't met a person yet that truly enjoys level grinding. It's accepted by most MMORPG veterans that "the real game begins at the level cap", so many people rush to get there as quickly as possible.

*wavies* hello. I enjoy a bit of the 'grinding' xp, as it's a great way to chat with people in XP parties and perfect some of the finer aspects of your job. Although I am thinking mostly of FFXI pre-COP era XP.

[DNO]

*wavies* hello. I enjoy a bit of the 'grinding' xp, as it's a great way to chat with people in XP parties and perfect some of the finer aspects of your job. Although I am thinking mostly of FFXI pre-COP era XP.

If anybody thinks beating a crab 1 million times trains you for primal battles, and other endgame content then they are silly. Doing actual endgame content is the best an only way to get good at it.

[Murugan]

If anybody thinks beating a crab 1 million times trains you for primal battles, and other endgame content then they are silly. Doing actual endgame content is the best an only way to get good at it.

It teaches you to hold aggro as a tank, deal efficient damage as a DD, and heal a party as a healer. These are all things that your average player does not do as well as they could(should). So yes it does train you to do endgame content, and since MMO's have moved away from the party-leveling model the quality of your average player at cap has dropped significantly.

I'd take a person who truly knew how to play their role in a group for endgame content over someone with ten million hours logged dodging magma and other ridiculous gimmicks in WoW or FFXIV any day.

[Elexia]

If anybody thinks beating a crab 1 million times trains you for primal battles, and other endgame content then they are silly. Doing actual endgame content is the best an only way to get good at it.

Because doing levequests and sitting around getting powerleveled trained you for Primal battles and AV, right?

[Taika]

*wavies* hello. I enjoy a bit of the 'grinding' xp, as it's a great way to chat with people in XP parties and perfect some of the finer aspects of your job. Although I am thinking mostly of FFXI pre-COP era XP.

I'm with Shayla here, I do enjoy leveling up my job(s) to cap, and I'd prefer if it would take me some time. For me it's about the journey, not in a hurry to get to the end of it.

I think that's one of the issues I have with the "modern day MMORPG(-player)s": people think the "real game" is the instanced end game content, not exploring the world (or just being part of it) and having spontaneous adventures.

[Eekiki]

I'm with Shayla here, I do enjoy leveling up my job(s) to cap, and I'd prefer if it would take me some time. For me it's about the journey, not in a hurry to get to the end of it.

I think that's one of the issues I have with the "modern day MMORPG(-player)s": people think the "real game" is the instanced end game content, not exploring the world (or just being part of it) and having spontaneous adventures.

Yes, yes. This is the point I was trying to make. Those people that rushed to 50 in SWTOR skipped all that story because "It's all about endgame" these days.

Take a look at history, early FFXI and WoW had no endgame...for quite awhile, in fact. For over a year, FFXI's "endgame" was the Shadow Lord, a battle that yielded no drops. WoW had Blackrock Spire, which was considered endgame merely because it was the highest level instance. There was no Dynamis, no Icecrown. Yet they succeeded because the grind was more than just a grind back then. You were exploring the world, meeting other players, building a community.

That last bit has actually proven to be detrimental to XIV, because a lot of us have played XI, and most of us have stayed with our LS mates from Vana'diel. This has caused some fragmentation in the community, since many LSs had exclusive membership. We're slowly recovering from that, though.

[Molly_Millions]

You could only have 1 LS in XI, so all LSes were exclusive.

[TheVedis]

You could only have 1 LS in XI, so all LSes were exclusive.

um....wrong

you could only have 1 equipped at a time, you could have multiple

[Velhart]

You could only have 1 LS in XI, so all LSes were exclusive.

You could have as many LS's as your inventory could hold.

[Katsumi_Tsukino]

I have to agree with those that are saying the grind is part of the fun. I felt the same about FFXI when i was playing meeting people discovering new abilities in a party setting and learning how to work them was a huge part of the fun on top of that you got to meet new people make friends and actually experience and explore the world when you had to move to a new spot to exp off of. people say COP killed the grinding experience but even post Aht Urgan the games grind was fun. what really killed the game and how you can truely say that you know exp pts actually teach people how to raid and work in a group setting is simply Abyssea.

Abyssea destoryed the skill level of the games players. anyone could get a job up to level cap and didnt matter what gear was used, what abilities were used. everyone got a free ticket to level cap with any job they wanted, hell half the people would claim they were going on a job that was well geared and then swap out and leach exp from everyone else. the game also got easy mode with the anima and the uber powerful everything. honestly IMO thats what really ruined FFXI.

FFXIV to survive will need to be able to build a community of players that actually know eachother. that actually need to quest with eachother and level up together. they shouldnt make it so that you cant do other things. sometimes everyone will just want to log on and not have to deal with people. but the majority of the game should be done with other people. and the game should have time sinks built in so gear doesnt drop instantly and everyone gets geared up within a few months or levels from one to 50 within a few months. my highest class maybe pretty low at this point but I can already see if I was super hardcore about playing the game logging in every night and playing for 4-5 hrs where I could have all my DoW/DoM capped in a matter of a few months.

I am sure that SE will strike a good balance and I hope that they will lean towards what seems to be the larger group on the forums people that dont want instant gratification and super casual games. the people that want to be able to do the content and have a reason to play the game for years to come.