FF14 needs WvW or RvR

[Ruru_Nayu]

Can we stay on topic and not complain about open world pvp? OP did not even ask for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnOhMeYxhRM
^that is WvW

[RitsukoSonoda]

Ahhh you were a selfish griefer.....I see.

Murdering all the guards and NPCs in places like Ogrimaar makes me a selfish griefer? I didn't bother with those little outpost areas. Go big or go home if you're going to raid an enemy settlement :P

The Booty Bay thing was more an issue with boredom when things were too slow.

[VelKallor]

When was this? Cause when I played back in 2018 AoE would not flag you, and on classic servers you also did not get flagged for AoE'ing someone that was flagged.

It happened during MoP , was the cause of a gigantic thread on the matter, plus massive GM complaints. There was this toy called the Censer, and pvpers used it to FORCEFLAG people "I want my coins"...again, the selfish pvp mentality, they cant be bothered with what others want, its all about MEEEEEEEEEEE.

War Mode was the response to this idiocy...what was the devs attitude? Dangling carrots like increased xp for PVE players of they turned War Mode on. I dont know if the devs are pigheaded, singleminded or just plain STUPID..but the basic concept that it doesnt matter WHAT you offer, if players dont want to do an activity THEY DONT WANT TO DO IT , so no amount of "incentive" will change their minds.

When a player says they dont like a specific activity, grabbing them by the neck and forcibly shoving their faces in it ISNT going to accomplish a damned thing, other than that person then hating your guts.

Then again, in light of past events, the fact that Blizzard staff couldnt or wouldnt accept the words "no means no" became pretty much self evident.

Murdering all the guards and NPCs in places like Ogrimaar makes me a selfish griefer?

When it means you are interfering with others gameplay, yes it does. Thats why the "dog in the manger" parallel applies: you dont need it, you dont want it, but no one else can have it or use it. Did you ever stop to think of OTHER players? The fact that what you were doing was stopping them from finishing their quests??

No?

Didnt think so.

Can we stay on topic and not complain about open world pvp? OP did not even ask for it.

We are on topic "I want to pvp at hunts"

[RitsukoSonoda]

It happened during MoP , was the cause of a gigantic thread on the matter, plus massive GM complaints. There was this toy called the Censer, and pvpers used it to FORCEFLAG people "I want my coins"...again, the selfish pvp mentality, they cant be bothered with what others want, its all about MEEEEEEEEEEE.

War Mode was the response to this idiocy...what was the devs attitude? Dangling carrots like increased xp for PVE players of they turned War Mode on. I dont know if the devs are pigheaded, singleminded or just plain STUPID..but the basic concept that it doesnt matter WHAT you offer, if players dont want to do an activity THEY DONT WANT TO DO IT , so no amount of "incentive" will change their minds.

When a player says they dont like a specific activity, grabbing them by the neck and forcibly shoving their faces in it ISNT going to accomplish a damned thing, other than that person then hating your guts.

Then again, in light of past events, the fact that Blizzard staff couldnt or wouldnt accept the words "no means no" became pretty much self evident.



When it means you are interfering with others gameplay, yes it does. Thats why the "dog in the manger" parallel applies: you dont need it, you dont want it, but no one else can have it or use it. Did you ever stop to think of OTHER players? The fact that what you were doing was stopping them from finishing their quests??

No?

Didnt think so.



We are on topic "I want to pvp at hunts"

Or perhaps it's more of an issue of their fellow high level horde players who most definitely were in the area as well but did nothing to stop me? At least the NPCs fought back. I remember camping in one of them for a couple hours waiting on ppl to group up to pick a fight with one of the faction leader NPCs. Hell all those low levels working together probably could have done it too. I mean the Imperial Guard in Warhammer 40K proved diddly can accomplish anything if you use enough of it.

Ultimately whether open world PvP is good or bad in a title boils down to the individual title's player base.

I played a number of F2P MMORPGs that had open world PvP that wasn't a crap show of annoying gankers. I've played others as well where the player base had turned it into a shit festival.

[VelKallor]

Or perhaps it's more of an issue of their fellow high level horde players who most definitely were in the area as well but did nothing to stop me?

So you admit it then. It never, of course, occurred to you that maybe you should just leave questgivers alone..or didnt the fact that you were seriously screwing up others gameplay ever occur to you?

Of course it didnt.

Hell all those low levels working together probably could have done it too

Ever stop to consider they didnt give a toss for pvp and maybe it would have been a better idea to leave them alone.???

A Dog asleep in a manger filled with hay, was awakened by the Cattle, which came in tired and hungry from working in the field. But the Dog would not let them get near the manger, and snarled and snapped as if it were filled with the best of meat and bones, all for himself. The Cattle looked at the Dog in disgust. “How selfish he is!” said one. “He cannot eat the hay and yet he will not let us eat it who are so hungry for it!”

Do not grudge others what you cannot enjoy yourself.

[TaleraRistain]

If you used an AoE attack and a player flagged for PvP walked into it, they'd get hit and you'd get flagged. Griefers love to do it so they can pick a fight whether you wanted it or not, and a number of classes had AoE skills as part of their single target rotations.

Or they would pull a mob onto you that if you hit it would turn your PvP flag on like a city NPC or vendor. There were ways to get around that restriction.

To the larger topic, I think one of the bigger issues with something like world PvP is that they become the issue of someone whether they want to participate or not. Like someone going and killing all the NPCs at The Crossroads in WoW when newbies are there trying to do their quests. Battlegrounds in WoW was fun. Dueling someone in the world who agreed was fun. Being forced to participate or have your day ruined because you were too low was not.

[TaleraRistain]

Murdering all the guards and NPCs in places like Ogrimaar makes me a selfish griefer? I didn't bother with those little outpost areas. Go big or go home if you're going to raid an enemy settlement :P

The Booty Bay thing was more an issue with boredom when things were too slow.

Griefer? No. You were doing what the game allowed. But it was pretty sucky just having to sit around and wait or just log on my server because Horde at that time was vastly outnumbered by Alliance so our cities were constantly being raided by high levels and we couldn't get anything done.

[Jojoya]

So you admit it then. It never, of course, occurred to you that maybe you should just leave questgivers alone..or didnt the fact that you were seriously screwing up others gameplay ever occur to you?

Of course it didnt.

Which sounds good except as an enemy player, you usually couldn't tell which flagged NPC is a questgiver or just random NPC(guards were of course obvious because they were on the way to attack as soon as you got in range even if you hadn't attacked them, and most of the vendors had a job title).

The real mistake was on Blizzard's side by flagging the quest NPCs in the first place. But then Blizzard always wanted world PvP to be a standard part of the game. They only added the Normal servers (which weren't even true PvE servers) because they knew they'd miss out on a lot of money from those who wanted a RPG but weren't interested in PvP. Their expectation had been that players killing enemy quest givers would bring out players from the other faction to defend the NPCs and attack the enemy players. It seemed to work fairly well in Vanilla. Then the high level players moved to Outland in Burning Crusade and couldn't be bothered to go back to defending the low level cities when they had their world PvP in Hellfire Peninsula, Zangarmarsh and at Halaa.

Regardless, the OP has made it clear that world PvP is not what they're asking for. They're asking for large scale PvP in zones designed specifically for such PvP that wouldn't fear with PvE acitivity.

[Midareyukki]

GW2's WvW are kind of fun, though they also feel like you're just going with the herd half the time xD

I do wonder, though, wouldn't they just be "more elaborate Frontlines?"

[RitsukoSonoda]

GW2's WvW are kind of fun, though they also feel like you're just going with the herd half the time xD

I do wonder, though, wouldn't they just be "more elaborate Frontlines?"

The 2 games I've played that had notable large scale faction vs faction pvp events that come to mind are RF Online and Pandora Saga. Both of these featured 3 factions. RF Online had a Craig War event every 8 RL hours amounting to 3 per day. I think it supported up to 200 players per side. Initial objectives here to defend your base node while trying to break someone else's. Once a faction managed to break another's node someone from the attacking faction then had to run an item do the central area and give it to the halostone keeper. If they succeeded that faction was free to mine in the central area for various resources for a few hours because the keeper would attempt to kill anyone from another faction that entered. (I say try because the game had some bad balance issues with stat scaling at high levels resulting in what can easily be called the most broken tank class in any MMO. When my Accretian Mercenary can tank hundreds of players + supporting NPCs without breaking a sweat it's far beyond OP at that point. I could even tank the halostone keeper while others ran around killing the ppl AFK with their mining rigs up or march right into other factions bases because the base defenses couldn't dent my HP bar. Though I did get some funny reactions from Bellato and Cora players that screenshotted me just chilling in their own base areas lol.)

I Pandora Saga was a bit different with each faction having a main base along with multiple outposts. I don't immediately recall rewards for winning those battles or the schedule and frequency tho. I think there were just various static bonuses depending on end ranks after the events. I think this was limited to 100 per side.