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  1. #1
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Posts
    168

    Machinist vs Summoner vs Red Mage vs Reaper

    Which class requires the less amount of brainpower, combos, and/or mandatory specific burst windows?

    And which is easier to hardest?

    All these classes are the only DPS to be top tier at all the Deep Dungeons (excluding Rper, only top tier at POTD)

    So I'm like, if I can main one of these, I'll pretty much be set for all content I like, and learn it for things other content. So as a person who loves Dancer, yet its mid in deep dungeons and PVP, I'm at a crossroads, while also feeling iffy about Machinist due to having to think for proper burst windows which can be screwed over by ping or a small mistake in the rotation.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Duskane's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    isnt it messed up that goblet is a housing area and not a tiny goblin
    Posts
    4,163
    Character
    Dusk Himmel
    World
    Ravana
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    for all forms of Content Red mage
    SMN has the easier rotation but compared to red mage not by much
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Bubos123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    Posts
    8
    Character
    Emotional Upset
    World
    Chocobo
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    All these jobs are not considered hard, but I doubt if they can be directly ranked in order for difficulty because they have different features.

    I’d say SMN it’s the easiest beacuse it has simple, nearly fixed rotation. It also has fewest hard castings among casters and little space for optimization. If you play causally then RDM is just a little harder than SMN, but it does have more to optimize and more hard castings. It has greatest ability for resurrection among all jobs, which is useful in many content.

    MCH has simple rotation too and doesn’t need hard casting, but requires more button pressing frequencies in burst windows. RPR is about the easiest one in melee but you still get positionals and have to be close to the boss.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Shiroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    866
    Character
    Ohlala Chica
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    smn has to shuffle its rotation of primals; and the skills within the primals on harder content... (while on easy content, it us very straight forward)
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    AluneTempest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    84
    Character
    Yor Forger
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    SMN is the easiest of all the four jobs, linear rotation, you dont need to think, just press the glowing buttons.

    RDM, MCH and RPR is easy to play but pretty difficult to optimize, because you need to build gauge to deal damage and dont want to overcap gauge or drift your skills, plus you need to press a lot of buttons on the burst windows because of the short GCD+oGCD(Enshroud, Hypercharge, RDM Melee combo).

    so from easiest to hardest

    SMN>RDM>RPR=MCH

    remember that you dont need to be full optimal to clear any content.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player
    Keichi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Posts
    268
    Character
    Maric Ward
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Not included in the list, but i had sayed the monk.
    I loved him in shb, because i was able to press the skill "brain dead".
    He has changed a little, but not much
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Shiroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    866
    Character
    Ohlala Chica
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    anyone saying, you don't need to think on Smn, has only done dungeons or normal trials (those really are braindead with Smn),

    .. but once you get to higher content (savage or ultimates), it less linear, there is a not a optimal rotation for your dps you stick too, but rather a shuffel of primals & their skills, so you dont get caught with Ifrit during movement or you try to get either Garudas aoe / dot or Titana burst under buff windows (there's a reason, why Smn have multiple openers)
    ...
    it is easy, but you have to think about your rota on higher content (doing the braindead dungeon rota will bite you on harder content), having ifrit out at the wrong moment can be very punishing (and you usally either dont want to waste swiftcast on Ifrit or its not even available yet, since its used on Garuda, ruin 4 us the only emergency up then
    ...
    if you don't intend to play savage or ultimates, Smn really is easy (too easy on most normal content, really can feel braindead on dungeons).., but if you do intend to do harder content, not sure if Mch & Reaper are easier there (but Reaper does have positionals)
    (3)

  8. #8
    Player
    Renathras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,747
    Character
    Ren Thras
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Least amount of brainpower, coombos, and/or mandatory specific burst windows - Probably SMN.

    SPECIFICALLY FOR DEEP DUNGEONS:

    MCH has a combo and burst windows with a lot going on (Wildfire and Hypercharge with LOTS of oGCD weaves and resource management to set them up). It also doesn't have a personal mitigation or heal of any kind outside of Second Wind/Bloodbath role actions. MCH does have good personal damage and you can pool the burst for when you really need to burn things. It also has an interrupt which you can use on some things and then burst them down before they get a second chance at using those abilities...provided you're pooling your resources and big CDs to do so. It's super mobile (which can keep you from being hit but also risk you stepping on traps), but it is a little involved to play in some situations since the goal is kill before you die and you have no healing/sustain to outlast an enemy if you can't outdamage their health bar. And as you say, it's more ping dependent than the others.

    RDM has its melee/cast-burst combo, but it's pretty simple to pull off. The core rotation doesn't require a LOT of brainpower, but you need to pay attention to Fire/Stone Ready procs to get the most out of it. Though not doing so isn't TERRIBLE, and the "shortcast-longcast" Dualcast system is pretty easy to do. You can super-braindead it by just going Jolt-Thunder-Jolt-Aero over and over until melee ready. While this isn't the BEST idea, you can do it if things get too hectic until you regain your senses/things calm down. The AOE rotation is likewise simple, just Thunder-Impact-Aero-Impact until melee ready, and the melee "rotation" is just one button three times. And unlike the single target, there aren't procs, so you aren't missing anything doing it that way.

    Note that this isn't AT ALL optimal RDM play, but the point being, if excrement hits fans, you have a fallback that's still pretty stable. RDM also has Vercure (with Dualcast, this isn't half-bad for a self-heal in a pinch), Verraise (when playing with others), and is pretty overall straightforward to play semi-optimally (the Fire/Stone procs aren't THAT hard to deal with, and if you aren't in a party, lining up "burst" isn't really relevant other than using Manafication and Embolden when you know you can safely roll through your big melee/cast burst back to back). It sounds like it has a bit going on, and it does, but you can swap to the "simple" version and back easily, and the extra utility can help clear. RDM has long been seen as one of the best Jobs for any Deep Dungeon, including PotD and HoH.

    SMN is kind of RDM-lite. Physic is sadly still worthless, but Phoenix gives you some healing, and Carby can give you a personal shield provided you use it when you don't have a Demi or Primal out. It also has a somewhat long-lasting damage buff, is highly mobile when not in Ifrit (so it kinda gets some of MCH's benefit), and it seems to do a bit more sustained damage than RDM and has pretty potent burst, especially if Bahamut is up. So it's kind of a mix of the other two. Also has a Raise for group runs. What it has over MCH and RDM in spades is that it has no combos (unless you count Ifrit's 1-2 charge/slam), no mandatory burst windows (the "burst" is just part of your rotation - Bahamut - and consists of pressing your Ruin 3 button every GCD while weaving Enkindle Bahamut, Deathflare, and 2x Festers...and that's literally it) and isn't something you have to time or anything, you just do it on CD, more or less.

    SMN definitely requires the least brainpower since it doesn't have MCH's CDs and Hypercharge window nor RDM's slide-casting and melee combo stacking. It has less sustain than RDM (no Vercure) but does have a 30 sec CD personal shield that can hold 2 charges, and when Phoenix is up (once per 2 mins), Everlasting Flight and Rekindle (which, unlike Physic, DO scale off of INT and thus heal a good amount.)

    Unfortunately, I don't know enough about RPR to comment on it, so I'll defer to others.
    .

    Easiest to hardest probably depends on if you're good at kiting and not getting touched or not. RDM is the best of the three at semi-tanking hits or making up for mistakes due to Vercure, though you need to learn to slide on the Dualcast. And if you aren't absolutely NEEDING to do the 3x melee/cast combo (where you pool resources and CDs to set up for it), the core rotation isn't bad.

    .

    RDM is PROBABLY the best choice of the three for Deep Dungeons (all of them) because of its on-demand self-sustain, good burst, and relatively easy rotation for "stuff hit the fan" moments. This allows it to be approachable, still do good damage so the clock isn't as much of a threat to your success, and allows some forgiveness of mistakes. Though note that RDM doesn't have a silence like MCH does (it and SMN both do have the Sleep roll action for things that are weak to Sleep, though...)

    The only Job that is probably in a similar place to RDM for Deep Dungeons is WAR as it does less damage but is a lot more forgiving and tanky, and has really good self-sustain to make up for mistakes.

    RDM and WAR constantly top the charts for the best Jobs for solo DD runs and they both are good in groups as well.

    .

    For more general content - SMN is, as others have said, an easy rotation while still having some utility and as Shiro said, some optimization.

    RDM is still easy to play well in most content, though if you want to maximize it, you'd need to learn how to cram 3x melee combos in party buff/burst, though this isn't TERRIBLY difficult, and you can still clear content other than probably Ultimate not doing this, so it's more a "thing for you to work on if you want to" than "thing you must do flawlessly all the time".

    So if you're talking non-solo content, SMN is a great choice as well.
    (1)
    Last edited by Renathras; 03-16-2023 at 12:31 PM. Reason: EDIT for length

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