Lazy Design

[Callinon]

That's not a phrase I use lightly. I know how much work goes in to designing and developing a game, especially one this scale.

I was very much looking forward to this patch. I really was. I love the Loporrits, I love deep dungeons, and I actually enjoy relic grinds.

The Loporitts are great. I actually have no issues with them. They're funny and cute as always. The daily tribal quests are the standard fare but that's fine.

The new deep dungeon is.....sure a deep dungeon. I don't know what I was expecting here, but I did think they'd maybe try to innovate a little? The area design is top notch stuff, and what I've seen of the boss mechanics looks pretty good so far. It's just... this is the third one of these and they're all the same. I'm not saying they need to suddenly transition into being first-person shooters or something like that, but there really isn't anything to set Eureka Orthos apart from the other two deep dungeons we already have except that this one is at level 90. Ok. Great. But so what? There's too much resting on laurels going on here. Innovate a little. I promise it won't kill you.

And then... the relic. Hoo boy the relic. What do I even say that isn't in dozens or hundreds of threads across the Internet already?

Believe it or not I like working on relics. It gives me a goal I can work towards and see tangible progress over the long term. That feels good to me. As a result of this, I've become very familiar with the mechanisms we have for making progress on a relic weapon. My personal favorites are the anima weapons from Heavensward. There are actual options for how exactly you want to approach each step (well most of them) and you can do them at your leisure as you're just playing the game. Would you like to know how many relic steps for the anima line are straight tomestone dumps with no alternatives? Two. Two of them. Step 5 and step 9. Umbrites can only be obtained with poetics, and while you probably won't actually need 75 per weapon... you're going to need a fair few. And the archaic enchanted ink is poetics only; one per weapon.

Every other step has options. Do you know how many ways you can acquire unidentifiable materials for step three? SIX. SIX WAYS for each of them. They CAN be a poetics dump, or you can do hunts for allied seals, or you can do treasure maps, or you can do tribal quests from either ARR or HW, or you can do normal Alexander raids.

I'll be very honest. When I heard that Endwalker relics would proceed similarly to Heavensward relics (which is exactly what was said by Yoshi P) this is the kind of thing I was thinking of. Options. Play the game pretty much any way you want and you'll progress them. Instead we get tomestone dumps. Two of them back-to-back. The same tomestone dump I might add. They couldn't even be bothered to change the amount. Currently the EW relic progression path is 100% tomestone dumps.

I can't even begin to tell you how disappointing that was to see.

The first step being a tomestone dump is fine. The amount here might be a bit high, but it's whatever. It's a decent way to on-board someone and let them acquire a decent weapon without having to think too hard about what they're doing. But why is the second step another one? That doesn't make sense. It's not like we're hurting for content possibilities here. This could have been FATEs. It could have been a light farm encompassing any number of possible completion paths. It could've been dungeons, it could have been grand company nonsense, it could have been a repeatable quest chain in which you have to gather pies to hurl at Hildebrand's stupid face. Anything. But no, it's a tomestone dump.

Speaking as an amateur relic collector, this is extremely disappointing and demoralizing.

This is lazy design.

[Vahlnir]

I enjoy Deep Dungeons, but 30 floors isn't really much for the average player. I think that they should have allowed for at least 20 more before forcing solo play or premade groups. The relic...yeah, I've made my opinions known in other threads. I'll just say that I agree with you and call it good there.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I enjoy Deep Dungeons, but 30 floors isn't really much for the average player. I think that they should have allowed for at least 20 more before forcing solo play or premade groups.

This right here is my issue. Just, WHY!?
50 would be MUCH better then 30, but just give us 100 floors like Palace of the dead did. What would also be awesome...but I know wont happen is, like Palace, they plan to expand it later.
Id love to be able to casually have fun with 100 floors instead of only 30

[Callinon]

This right here is my issue. Just, WHY!?
50 would be MUCH better then 30, but just give us 100 floors like Palace of the dead did. What would also be awesome...but I know wont happen is, like Palace, they plan to expand it later.
Id love to be able to casually have fun with 100 floors instead of only 30

Nah, 200 floors was too many. 100 is a good number of floors. I don't really have a problem with the casual side ending at 30. It does feel a little short but it's fine. My problem was just lack of innovation.

The differences between Eureka Orthos and the other deep dungeons are as follows:
- It's at level 90
- It looks different
- The pomanders all got worse

That's it. Those are the only real differences.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

This right here is my issue. Just, WHY!?
50 would be MUCH better then 30, but just give us 100 floors like Palace of the dead did. What would also be awesome...but I know wont happen is, like Palace, they plan to expand it later.
Id love to be able to casually have fun with 100 floors instead of only 30

I hate to say this but there is almost 100% certainly no "expand later" for Deep dungeon, this is its final state. I don't believe HoH was every revisited by the devs either. Unless there is a bug, this is it. 30 floors like Hoh for story and exp, 70 floors for pre mades.

Take it with a grain of salt but floor 20-30 has some "extreme" mechanics baked into it, this might be neglectable by gear score later, but i've seen skills like Bomb explosion, Magnetism and Swinge one shot players, which is usually unique to 150-200 and 70-100. You are usually in a believe of false security "its just lv 30" when you get clapped. My first 30 run on Rdm has me cast no less then 10 raises.

https://clips.twitch.tv/FlaccidFlirt...aKCWvp7_LWazcP bonus clip to make my point.

[Vahlnir]

I hate to say this but there is almost 100% certainly no "expand later" for Deep dungeon, this is its final state. I don't believe HoH was every revisited by the devs either. Unless there is a bug, this is it. 30 floors like Hoh for story and exp, 70 floors for pre mades.

Take it with a grain of salt but floor 20-30 has some "extreme" mechanics baked into it, this might be neglectable by gear score later, but i've seen skills like Bomb explosion, Magnetism and Swinge one shot players, which is usually unique to 150-200 and 70-100. You are usually in a believe of false security "its just lv 30" when you get clapped. My first 30 run on Rdm has me cast no less then 10 raises.

https://clips.twitch.tv/FlaccidFlirt...aKCWvp7_LWazcP bonus clip to make my point.

Welp. Guess I'll be going in as RDM or SMN.

[Rehayem]

The relic step was the most disappointing thing to me. I don't really care about deep dungeons (PotD kinda gave me a bad taste of it), and beast tribes are perfectly fine for me. But... there's really nothing else to do except grind tomestones with daily roulettes and get the weapons. I guess Bozja and Eureka won't be as empty so that's gonna keep me occupied, but come on...

[Remish]

Idk I'm pretty happy with the direction relic is going. Easy catch up that I can dump my tombs into and grind any way I want instead of some specific method and location. Is it boring? Sure, but I'll take this any day of the week over the tedium that became literally every other relic to date.

[Rehayem]

Idk I'm pretty happy with the direction relic is going. Easy catch up that I can dump my tombs into and grind any way I want instead of some specific method and location. Is it boring? Sure, but I'll take this any day of the week over the tedium that became literally every other relic to date.

This is why we can't have nice things

[MonteCristo]

This is why we can't have nice things

Exactly why and tbh it is what it is atp...7.0 or bust as far as im concerned