Tomestones.. Again.. for a relic..

[Absimiliard]

We gave up an exploratory zone and relic quests for island sanctuary and dead content criterions.

This is what happens when the casual playerbase get a say in the game's endgame content.

Except it wasn't just the casuals. The raiding community was very vocal in their dislike of Eureka and Bozja, not to mention how much some whined and complained about ARR and Heavensward relic grinds. We really shot ourselves in the foot on this one.

[Supersnow845]

Except it wasn't just the casuals. The raiding community was very vocal in their dislike of Eureka and Bozja, not to mention how much some whined and complained about ARR and Heavensward relic grinds.

Since when did the raiding community dislike eureka and Bozja, BA is still the most beloved raid in the game except maybe OG rivenroad and nobody explicitly dislikes DRS

Exploratory content zones fit around raiding very well

[Absimiliard]

Since when did the raiding community dislike eureka and Bozja, BA is still the most beloved raid in the game except maybe OG rivenroad and nobody explicitly dislikes DRS

Exploratory content zones fit around raiding very well

Since always. I personally liked that sort of content, but a not insignificant portion of the raiding community was not happy. The relic grinds from ARR and Heavensward were similarly received, in that a portion of the raiding community felt getting the weapons was "mandatory" since a lot of them were in actuality stronger than their raid counterparts due to having better secondaries. These are probably the same crybabies that planted the idea in Yoshi-P's head that relics should be useless until the very end of an expansion.

[Supersnow845]

Since always. I personally liked that sort of content, but a rather significant portion of the raiding community was not happy. The relic grinds from ARR and Heavensward were similarly received, in that a portion of the raiding community felt getting the weapons was "mandatory" since a lot of them were in actuality stronger than their raid counterparts due to having better secondaries.

The relics are only BIS long after the final tier is out, sure in some situations they can be the best prog weapons if you are struggling with a tier but you shouldn’t ever be relying on relics to clear a raid tier, and I’m still not sure why that links into not liking eureka, I mean it’s not like launch anima was any faster than the eureka grind

[Absimiliard]

The relics are only BIS long after the final tier is out, sure in some situations they can be the best prog weapons if you are struggling with a tier but you shouldn’t ever be relying on relics to clear a raid tier, and I’m still not sure why that links into not liking eureka, I mean it’s not like launch anima was any faster than the eureka grind

Now you're responding to a point that was never made. None the less, I will note relic weapons did not always lag as far behind as they do now. Originally they would catch up not too long after each tier came out, at which point many raiders would flock to them even should they have their raid weapon already, once again, because many of the relic weapons had superior secondaries. No one said anything about using them to clear.

And yes, it does link back to not liking Eureka. It's non-raid content a lot of people felt obligated to do because there was an upgrade in it for them. The casuals cry because it's a grind, and the raiders cry because it's "forcing" them to do something they would rather not. Both mindsets are stupid.

So what do we have now? We've got crippled relic weapons that require almost no effort to obtain. They're not even worth the miniscule amount of effort required to obtain them, at least until the end of an expansion.

[Supersnow845]

Now you're responding to a point that was never made. None the less, I will note relic weapons did not always lag as far behind as they do now. Originally they would catch up not too long after each tier came out, at which point many raiders would flock to them even should they have their raid weapon already, once again, because many of the relic weapons had superior secondaries. No one said anything about using them to clear.

And yes, it does link back to not liking Eureka. It's non-raid content a lot of people felt obligated to do because there was an upgrade in it for them. The casuals cry because it's a grind, and the raiders cry because it's "forcing" them to do something they would rather not. Both mindsets are stupid.

So what do we have now? We've got crippled relic weapons that require almost no effort to obtain. They're not even worth the effort of getting anymore.

When did the relics ever have superior stats mid tiers, besides some edge cases like that horrible time we had the tanks use strength accessories over vitality accessories for damage over health the relics have always been far enough behind that edge case optimisation didn’t really factor in the raiding communities overall opinion of relics

And regardless like I said it’s not like the anima relic was any faster, you can’t act like “being forced to do eureka” is a point against it when the alternative in HW was to do ARF 857 times

[Absimiliard]

When did the relics ever have superior stats mid tiers, besides some edge cases like that horrible time we had the tanks use strength accessories over vitality accessories for damage over health the relics have always been far enough behind that edge case optimisation didn’t really factor in the raiding communities overall opinion of relics

And regardless like I said it’s not like the anima relic was any faster, you can’t act like “being forced to do eureka” is a point against it when the alternative in HW was to do ARF 857 times

I take it you didn't play in ARR and Heavensward. Those relic weapons came in pretty handy back then. There were of course times where they would lag behind, but you didn't have to wait until the expansion's end for them to be at or near the level of raid weapons. Even when they did lag behind, the gap was nowhere near what it is today. Granted, part of this is due to the old relics having more steps. You upgraded them more often in exchange for doing it in smaller increments, which for the most part allowed them to be much closer to raid weapons than what we have now at any given time.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Since when did the raiding community dislike eureka and Bozja, BA is still the most beloved raid in the game except maybe OG rivenroad and nobody explicitly dislikes DRS

Exploratory content zones fit around raiding very well

OG rivenroad... So 1.23?

[Supersnow845]

OG rivenroad... So 1.23?

Yeah 1.23a

Maybe it was because everything else was so bad but damn if rivenroad hard wasn’t just universally beloved back then

[LittleImp]

Except it wasn't just the casuals. The raiding community was very vocal in their dislike of Eureka and Bozja, not to mention how much some whined and complained about ARR and Heavensward relic grinds. We really shot ourselves in the foot on this one.

I'm glad the president of raiding is here to tell us how the raiding community felt. What a load of complete and utter nonsense.