Tomestones.. Again.. for a relic..

[Supersnow845]

I take it you didn't play in ARR and Heavensward. Those relic weapons came in pretty handy back then. There were of course times where they would lag behind, but you didn't have to wait until the expansion's end for them to be at or near the level of raid weapons. Even when they did lag behind, the gap was nowhere near what it is today.

I mean I did, and I certainly remember when the relics didn’t lag as far behind that they were beaten by a garden variety extreme weapon but still don’t remember then actually changing the balance when a tier was still current for anything outside of those old weird optimisation cases around secondary stats and accuracy being a thing to contend with back then but maybe I just didn’t play a class that that was relevant to back then

Point taken though

[Absimiliard]

Well it certainly ain’t the mid tier playerbase who is happy with a relic for 1500 poetics

Is... is anyone happy with it? Judging by the fallout all over various social media, this seems to be something the lion's share of the playerbase are agreeing on. You don't often see it.

I mean I did, and I certainly remember when the relics didn’t lag as far behind that they were beaten by a garden variety extreme weapon but still don’t remember then actually changing the balance when a tier was still current for anything outside of those old weird optimisation cases around secondary stats and accuracy being a thing to contend with back then but maybe I just didn’t play a class that that was relevant to back then

Point taken though

Oh, yeah, I'm not saying they were used for progression (outside of really slow groups). A lot of people just wanted to pick up their final stage each tier because it did give them a numerical advantage on subsequent clears, even if minor. Sometimes, anyway. Some of the relics did have pretty bad secondaries in ARR, in which case the raid weapon would perform better. SE eventually circumvented this issue by allowing us to choose our own secondaries, but that went out the window when Heavensward ended.

[Ath192]

If I may, what do you feel would have been an appropriate objective, given the lack of exploratory zone?

Personally, based on previous steps, I feel like 15 dungeons runs would be about right. Perhaps levels 70-80.

Not the best person to ask since I'm not a big grinder, But personally a small book like menu kind of like wondrous tales WITHOUT the RNG element of dungeons/trials/overworld zones to go explore/clear to get the necessary materials would be good. Anywhere from 15-25 sounds good to me, and the story behind why those areas/dungeons has to be tied into some BS about how the materials are special to this zone and why they are needed to make such a powerful relic so I don't feel like they are just sending me out for the hell of it.

However, and this is opinion, to me relics should be lengthy to get because I believe they are special weapons and most normal people should get one for their main because of how hard they are to procure, that's what makes them "relics" or very special weapons. Alt jobs and such should be fine with tomestone/raid gear or someone can just be crazy and put the effort into multiple.

What they shouldn't be imo is something so easy to get that I wonder if manually gathering the mats and crafting a market board set takes longer. Because, those are run of the mill armaments, and not special..

[LittleImp]

Except it wasn't just the casuals. The raiding community was very vocal in their dislike of Eureka and Bozja, not to mention how much some whined and complained about ARR and Heavensward relic grinds. We really shot ourselves in the foot on this one.

I'm glad the president of raiding is here to tell us how the raiding community felt. What a load of complete and utter nonsense.

[Erinellza]

But some people cried when we had to grind FATEs and raids for relics, lol. It's impossible to please everyone.

[Iyrnthota]

Well it certainly ain’t the mid tier playerbase who is happy with a relic for 1500 poetics

Potentially a hot take. I don't think player feedback had a significant impact on their decision to make these relic steps tomes only.
I think this was their plan regardless.

[Kaurhz]

It's pretty cringe to ascribe the acceptance and/or lack thereof to certain groups of people.

Casuals can be happy and/or unhappy with this direction, similarly, 'hardcore' players can either be happy or unhappy about this particular direction. - As far as I am concerned, and as far as I can see there's quite a wide agreement amongst people that aren't entirely satisfied by this direction.

The fact people ascribe this to a certain group of people is beyond nonsense.

[Iyrnthota]

Not the best person to ask since I'm not a big grinder, But personally a small book like menu kind of like wondrous tales WITHOUT the RNG element of dungeons/trials/overworld zones to go explore/clear to get the necessary materials would be good. Anywhere from 15-25 sounds good to me, and the story behind why those areas/dungeons has to be tied into some BS about how the materials are special to this zone and why they are needed to make such a powerful relic so I don't feel like they are just sending me out for the hell of it.

However, and this is opinion, to me relics should be lengthy to get because I believe they are special weapons and most normal people should get one for their main because of how hard they are to procure, that's what makes them "relics" or very special weapons. Alt jobs and such should be fine with tomestone/raid gear or someone can just be crazy and put the effort into multiple.

What they shouldn't be imo is something so easy to get that I wonder if manually gathering the mats and crafting a market board set takes longer. Because, those are run of the mill armaments, and not special..

I think the idea of doing something like Wondrous Tales would be pretty cool. I actually kind of enjoyed the book phase of the AAR relic until I realised exactly how many of them I would need to do.

[LianaThorne]

Not the best person to ask since I'm not a big grinder, But personally a small book like menu kind of like wondrous tales WITHOUT the RNG element of dungeons/trials/overworld zones to go explore/clear to get the necessary materials would be good. Anywhere from 15-25 sounds good to me, and the story behind why those areas/dungeons has to be tied into some BS about how the materials are special to this zone and why they are needed to make such a powerful relic so I don't feel like they are just sending me out for the hell of it.

However, and this is opinion, to me relics should be lengthy to get because I believe they are special weapons and most normal people should get one for their main because of how hard they are to procure, that's what makes them "relics" or very special weapons. Alt jobs and such should be fine with tomestone/raid gear or someone can just be crazy and put the effort into multiple.

What they shouldn't be imo is something so easy to get that I wonder if manually gathering the mats and crafting a market board set takes longer. Because, those are run of the mill armaments, and not special..

I would have loved this tbh. Give me a list of tasks to do that reward pieces of what you need to upgrade your weapon and I'd be in heaven. Would have been a refreshing change of pace for this step for sure, especially since it would give nostalgia back to Zodiac books (just without the hell involved with completing them @_@).

[HyonaCookie]

Personally, based on previous steps, I feel like 15 dungeons runs would be about right. Perhaps levels 70-80.

Yeah I think something like that was what I would've expected. Or maybe even having to do one dungeon/trial/raid from each expansion level range if you don't want to do dungeons in chronological order.

I do hope they bring back a bit of the book step from ARR though. Nine books was a bit of a slog so probably not that many, but I did enjoy going on a scavenger hunt.