Tomestones.. Again.. for a relic..

[XiXiQ]

It's only the second stage, so I'm not fussed. I can collect tomestones just as easilly in general roulette etc than anything else, like "light".


Eureka was the only real relic issue I came across for the last step - that final fate was never up, and took longer to try and spawn than you had in the instance.

[PotatoTree]

Fates are not fun. Doing the same easy content over and over again is not fun.

We don't need any content to make "old content active" cause you already have roulettes that help with that.

Can we please move on from establishing that relics must be a grind and instead make getting a relic use content that requires at least some braincells? For example, IMO deep dungeons are boring, but the later floors are fun cause of the risk of that wipe and require some level of awareness. In 1.0 the relics were a bit challenging to get with the 4 man fate thing and the harder ifrit that was required.

Give me something like the relic requiring a boss rush of all the extreme trial bosses of a patch tier in a row without intermissions or something like that. Or maybe extreme trials but with remixed mechanics.

In terms of Bozja/Eureka, 1v1 Bozja engagements were fun (until it was cheeseable), and Eureka Anemos had a beautiful zone. Those I liked, everything else was just a afk snoozefest.

[Minali]

We don't need any content to make "old content active" cause you already have roulettes that help with that.

Roulettes alone aren't even remotely sufficient, sorry to burst your bubble. Every week there are so many people asking in Novice Network for help with the queue even with all languages enabled and all, or ranting about being stuck in long queues. Even on MSQ trials. Most people do roulettes at reset and then never touch the duty finder again for the next day - and the duties they get are the more popular ones people have to have unlocked. That's how you get CT raids every day, with a bit of the new Alliance Raid sprinkled in for gear farming, it is simply the one every player unlocked at a point. Try queueing for a Heavensward Alliance Raid outside of busy hours and watch the timer reach 30 minutes, 45+ if you don't want to do them as DPS.

One single step of relic grind will not magically solve this problem, but it is one of many things that improve queues a little bit. (It's similar with moogle tomestone farming but this only exists for a short time.) And when they said they wanted to go back to the concept of earlier expansions without an extra special area, featuring multiple kinds of less active duties was the thing I expected to happen. Instead it's just "do your roulettes and buy yourself a shiny weapon tomorrow". Hell, even if it wouldn't be 3000 tomes in total but 30.000 it would be an improvement because it would require you to do more than your roulettes if you want to have them done, but it would still only help with more popular duties.

[sharknado]

One single step of relic grind will not magically solve this problem, but it is one of many things that improve queues a little bit. (It's similar with moogle tomestone farming but this only exists for a short time.) And when they said they wanted to go back to the concept of earlier expansions without an extra special area, featuring multiple kinds of less active duties was the thing I expected to happen. Instead it's just "do your roulettes and buy yourself a shiny weapon tomorrow". Hell, even if it wouldn't be 3000 tomes in total but 30.000 it would be an improvement because it would require you to do more than your roulettes if you want to have them done, but it would still only help with more popular duties.

I kind of doubt it. It would have to be a lot of coherent changes together. No unsync farms and something that doesn't put DPS jobs in a ~10 min dungeon queue for each run. Current relic weapons aren't BiS so if it's a bigger grind then people would probably just go for either crafted, pandaemonium or the high-end weapon and do relic only if they like the looks and accept the grind required. ARR or HW relics aren't thaat popular even with unscyn option. It's also hard to check the looks of the weapon before all stages are released.

And if you want more people in queue for roulettes there should be better rewards I want to level few DPS jobs but if I queue for a leveling dungeon and get Ifrit again and again then it's zero exp for 8 minute of queue. And even with tank or healer it's better to force highest available dungeon for the level rather than to run the roulette over and over as it doesn't compensate for the exp lost while doing much lower dungeon.


IMHO relic should have multiple appearances (more than what we have now) and people could decide upfront if they want to pursue it and which variants - then it could follow a mix or ARR/HW instance runs and alike.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If they leave it up to FATEs alone? Yeah that’s boring.

Playing with Logos/Lost Actions to make the most out of the process? Yeah that’s fun, to me.

[MaxCarnage]

I just don't understand that some of the same people who want more for the relic grind are also the same people doing the bare minimum and only getting one.

I understand that if you're only getting one it sucks. But go for more? That way you're not logging in, buying the one weapon with tomes you've already accumulated, and then being upset that you're done. Put in the effort to get more, since they're so easy. Even if it's for classes you don't use.

And for the people saying youcan get a weapon with one day of roulettes, that's only possible if you get new people. And as I've been at 0 retries on my journal for a few weeks now, I'm starting to believe they don't exist.

The relic can only be "done in 5 minutes" if you're only doing one. You're sending mixed messages if you're wanting for more while doing the least.

[LianaThorne]

I just don't understand that some of the same people who want more for the relic grind are also the same people doing the bare minimum and only getting one.

I understand that if you're only getting one it sucks. But go for more? That way you're not logging in, buying the one weapon with tomes you've already accumulated, and then being upset that you're done. Put in the effort to get more, since they're so easy. Even if it's for classes you don't use.

And for the people saying youcan get a weapon with one day of roulettes, that's only possible if you get new people. And as I've been at 0 retries on my journal for a few weeks now, I'm starting to believe they don't exist.

The relic can only be "done in 5 minutes" if you're only doing one. You're sending mixed messages if you're wanting for more while doing the least.

Hunt trains. Get a weapon in 2h. Can do multiple a day by server hopping for trains.

[Deceptus]

Hunt trains. Get a weapon in 2h. Can do multiple a day by server hopping for trains.

I don't know about this, I joined more than a few hunt trains and didn't get 1500 tomes in a run, unless your talking about doing one and then server hopping (basically non stop for 2 hours)

I do not know, why Square Enix is so incapable of understanding what the players want, and what they complain about.

- Atmas:
The main reason people complained about Atmas is not that you have to grind FATEs. It's that the drops are RNG. Only the fact that the drop rate is RNG was a problem there. If you had to grind out 5x as many Atmas but they were always 100% drop rate, people wouldn't have complained by far as much. And you could see with the Augmented Resistance weapon (iLvl 500, grinding HW FATEs) that no one complained about the grind itself. The complaint was a wholly different matter (see Bozja later)

Preach. Every time I want to go back and do an old ARR relic I hit the atmas, do 20 fates without a single drop and remember how much I hated this.

- Books:
The main reason people complained about books was not what you had to do, but how you had to do it. 90% of the time grinding for books is spent running around & teleporting from location to location. And you had to do that for 12 books. That's the most annoying part. If you only had to do 3 books with everything 4x it would've been MUCH better already, because you didn't have to teleport 120x for the enemies, 36x for the leves and 36+ times for the FATEs (because once again: RNG spawn).

Yep if the books were only Big book of Dungeons 1-3 , Big book of Fates 1-3 (specific continents per book), Big book of enemies 1-3 (again based on continent) it wouldn't have been so bad.

[Arkfrost]

I do not know, why Square Enix is so incapable of understanding what the players want, and what they complain about.

- Atmas:
The main reason people complained about Atmas is not that you have to grind FATEs. It's that the drops are RNG. Only the fact that the drop rate is RNG was a problem there. If you had to grind out 5x as many Atmas but they were always 100% drop rate, people wouldn't have complained by far as much. And you could see with the Augmented Resistance weapon (iLvl 500, grinding HW FATEs) that no one complained about the grind itself. The complaint was a wholly different matter (see Bozja later)

- Books:
The main reason people complained about books was not what you had to do, but how you had to do it. 90% of the time grinding for books is spent running around & teleporting from location to location. And you had to do that for 12 books. That's the most annoying part. If you only had to do 3 books with everything 4x it would've been MUCH better already, because you didn't have to teleport 120x for the enemies, 36x for the leves and 36+ times for the FATEs (because once again: RNG spawn).

- Eureka:
The main reason people complained about it was, because it was the only option. You had to engage with this MASSIVE content or you wouldn't get it. Bozja was a step into the right direction, but it had different problems.

- Bozja:
Why the heck is the most efficient way of doing the relic not doing Bozja? It should've been the other way round. Instead of having HW FATEs 100% drop the memories, Bozja CEs should've had 100% drop rate (plus a chance to drop up to 3 memories at once) and Skirmishes 100%, while HW FATEs should only have had a chance to drop them. Likewise CLL should've given 5 memories per run from the start on release, and not be almost equal to Crystal Tower.
Then, running Void Ark and Rabanastre 6x each is WAY too monotonous. It should've been like "clear all 3 Shadow of Mhach Raids & all 3 Ivalice raids and get half the memories you need". That way it would've felt FAR less monotonous, since you only had to do every content twice, instead of 6 times.

Square Enix should start understanding that people do not hate the content that they release per se. They almost always just hate certain aspects of it, and those aspects have to be cut out with a scalpel, not a chainsaw.

[Minali]

I do not know, why Square Enix is so incapable of understanding what the players want, and what they complain about.

- Atmas:
The main reason people complained about Atmas is not that you have to grind FATEs. It's that the drops are RNG. Only the fact that the drop rate is RNG was a problem there. If you had to grind out 5x as many Atmas but they were always 100% drop rate, people wouldn't have complained by far as much. And you could see with the Augmented Resistance weapon (iLvl 500, grinding HW FATEs) that no one complained about the grind itself. The complaint was a wholly different matter (see Bozja later)

- Books:
The main reason people complained about books was not what you had to do, but how you had to do it. 90% of the time grinding for books is spent running around & teleporting from location to location. And you had to do that for 12 books. That's the most annoying part. If you only had to do 3 books with everything 4x it would've been MUCH better already, because you didn't have to teleport 120x for the enemies, 36x for the leves and 36+ times for the FATEs (because once again: RNG spawn).

- Eureka:
The main reason people complained about it was, because it was the only option. You had to engage with this MASSIVE content or you wouldn't get it. Bozja was a step into the right direction, but it had different problems.

- Bozja:
Why the heck is the most efficient way of doing the relic not doing Bozja? It should've been the other way round. Instead of having HW FATEs 100% drop the memories, Bozja CEs should've had 100% drop rate (plus a chance to drop up to 3 memories at once) and Skirmishes 100%, while HW FATEs should only have had a chance to drop them. Likewise CLL should've given 5 memories per run from the start on release, and not be almost equal to Crystal Tower.
Then, running Void Ark and Rabanastre 6x each is WAY too monotonous. It should've been like "clear all 3 Shadow of Mhach Raids & all 3 Ivalice raids and get half the memories you need". That way it would've felt FAR less monotonous, since you only had to do every content twice, instead of 6 times.

Square Enix should start understanding that people do not hate the content that they release per se. They almost always just hate certain aspects of it, and those aspects have to be cut out with a scalpel, not a chainsaw.

This is a really good summary. I'd like to add for Bozja that it would be a big help if you could use the duty finder for the big duties, or really any kind of method with a reliable timer. I miss doing these duties, they were fun and you had to coordinate a lot, but I am not going to hang around in the instances for a long time in hopes they spawn and more than one person is interested in doing them at this precise moment...