Paired Threads: What would it take to make Heaker kits "complex/interesting"?

[ty_taurus]

I've said this before, I'll say it again...every healer needs something like the Cards to use to make downtime less boring. You know, SOMETHING to manage.

It's also been brought up that even in its prime, AST is miserable in solo content as its cards very poorly translate to a single fighter--one who suffers the lowest DPS output of any combat job. If this game is going to try and better support single target play, it should make sure every job feels fun and interesting when playing alone or with trusts.

[RyuDragnier]

It's also been brought up that even in its prime, AST is miserable in solo content as its cards very poorly translate to a single fighter--one who suffers the lowest DPS output of any combat job. If this game is going to try and better support single target play, it should make sure every job feels fun and interesting when playing alone or with trusts.

Which definitely constitutes adding a bit more to their DPS, I admit. They should probably look at SB and PvP for ideas on how to make DPS feel better. Deployment Tactics becoming the Bane for SCH (if targeting an enemy) would be really good.

[Allegor]

It's also been brought up that even in its prime, AST is miserable in solo content as its cards very poorly translate to a single fighter--one who suffers the lowest DPS output of any combat job. If this game is going to try and better support single target play, it should make sure every job feels fun and interesting when playing alone or with trusts.

Something something "who even plays a healer in solo content?" or "just switch to a dps for the MSQ" because apparently if you play a healer to have fun being a healing class, you're doing it wrong - now go back to the kitc- ...err, ex/savage/ultimate queues :^)

[Connor]

I've said this before, I'll say it again...every healer needs something like the Cards to use to make downtime less boring. You know, SOMETHING to manage.

I feel like the problem with this is that SE would point to Lilies, Fairy and Kardia and be like ‘oh you mean these super engaging mechanics? ’. Even though that’s completely missing the point because all three are entirely healing based lol

[Aravell]

Seeing all this discussion, I can't help but wonder if going into Shadowbringers, instead of simplifying every healer, they instead just fixed lilies, reworked Selene into being more usable and gave more ways to mitigate card RNG, would people be happier even if SGE was implemented as it is now?

[ty_taurus]

Seeing all this discussion, I can't help but wonder if going into Shadowbringers, instead of simplifying every healer, they instead just fixed lilies, reworked Selene into being more usable and gave more ways to mitigate card RNG, would people be happier even if SGE was implemented as it is now?

Personally, I would find it very disappointing if one of the most challenging magical disciplines known to Sharlayan--the hyper-offensive healer that heals through attacking, would have as shallow of a DPS toolkit as AST, without having any of its card system or anything even remotely close to it.

[RyuDragnier]

Seeing all this discussion, I can't help but wonder if going into Shadowbringers, instead of simplifying every healer, they instead just fixed lilies, reworked Selene into being more usable and gave more ways to mitigate card RNG, would people be happier even if SGE was implemented as it is now?

Tbh I really think they should have taken the time to make Seraph the permanent upgrade to both fairy forms. If they're fazing out differences between Selene and Eos, may as well go the full distance and make Seraph the permanent face of the fairy from now on.

[ForsakenRoe]

Seeing all this discussion, I can't help but wonder if going into Shadowbringers, instead of simplifying every healer, they instead just fixed lilies, reworked Selene into being more usable and gave more ways to mitigate card RNG, would people be happier even if SGE was implemented as it is now?

Personally, yes except the SGE part. If SGE was released 'with SB design on the other three healers', it'd have followed that design, not the one we have now. With that in mind, I assume it'd be closer to SB SCH in it's feel, maybe having a different system for how Toxicon works (so it's an actual rotational skill, not a scuffed ruin 2). Or maybe, like I've mentioned god knows how many times now, it'd have the current DPS system, and counteract that 'relative simplicity' by having it's damage>healing conversion system be more than just 'lol kardia', spread it to be AOE, generate shields via the damage, amplify the healing throughput (like soteria does now but as more than just an afterthought), etc. Either way, it wouldn't be 'SGE as it is now 1:1 copied over'

[Semirhage]

Seeing all this discussion, I can't help but wonder if going into Shadowbringers, instead of simplifying every healer, they instead just fixed lilies, reworked Selene into being more usable and gave more ways to mitigate card RNG, would people be happier even if SGE was implemented as it is now?

I mean, I'm an odd one out because I don't think the Shadowbringers lilies actually made WHM "fun", but probably more people would be satisfied yeah. Yippee, three charges of what amounts to oGCD Medica, the WHM is saaaaved. It's definitely going to be fun and competitive next to *points at healers with a flying crapload of utility and buffs and strengths the WHM kit has only ever dreamed of*

[Recon1o6]

I mean, I'm an odd one out because I don't think the Shadowbringers lilies actually made WHM "fun", but probably more people would be satisfied yeah. Yippee, three charges of what amounts to oGCD Medica, the WHM is saaaaved. It's definitely going to be fun and competitive next to *points at healers with a flying crapload of utility and buffs and strengths the WHM kit has only ever dreamed of*

Correct it did not. It became functional. That's not the same as fun.
Which is shb onwards in a nutshell. Stuff will function, but its not fun. Especially if you are a healer.