Guardian

[RyanCousland]

I can certainly attest to pld having full capacity to be hurtful when played aggressively and also hard to kill, at least from my perspective.

So the elixir/guardian combo wasn't even something I was aware of until recently which is why all these questions, but the most pressing one remaining is, how often does pld have full resources to do this? I have seen it done a few times per match so I wonder how many times can this be expected to happen.

I disagree with the cost to pld, if executed sucessfully on a weakened ally who would otherwise die, it spares pld and their team a lot of incoming trouble. It's even worse if the saved team member is of some sturdy job, melee for example, because once they are done using elixir they can come to their saviour's aid with some big guns available and all that, while their other team members might also help if they know what's going on. Truth is, the mechanic doesn't take long enough to execute. On the other side, team members have to notice what's happening first then loose a second or two to decision making, switching target, moving etc...and of course each team member has their own first thoughts on how to react so even if somebody slaps a marker on someone...it might be too late to take any advantage of the situation...

to answer your question of how often to expect the guard + cover combo while an ally uses elixir, it varies there have been matches where i never had to use it because my team was good at syncing kills whereas in other matches ive pulled it off 4 times but sometimes it didnt help to get a win.

indeed PLD can be somewhat hurtful but can mostly be ignored because its burst will never achieve a solo kill unless the opponent is bad at using recup and other resources

the total time for the guard + cover and ally use elixir is about 10s when including animation and reaction time, so if your hunting your opponent then a PLD rushes to them then wherever the PLD left creates the 3v4 scenario to your advantage which can increase to 3v5 if you disengage, and since PLD has already used Guardian theres nothing to stop your team achieving another kill then refocus to another or on the PLD because again outside of guard it doesnt have the resources to withstand anything more than a 1v2 setup unless theres NIN with LB , i recommend playing PLD to witness the cost before disagreeing completely

[Bluish]

Here is the thing, I do trust your experience, but I'm only concerned with this skill being too useful to people who are likely communicating. I haven't seen it happening before and I think I must have about 1500 matches behind me altogether... Top ranked on my server are mostly same gang every season and these folks are known to help each other all too well. Those are the people I witnessed using this strategy and I'm still trying to figure if it's worth coming back to ranked at all in the face of them in particular being able to do that. I have never seen anyone on my team doing it, not to say that I wouldn't have missed it if it was happening rarely, I could have, somehow. As is, I haven't seen it and that sheer fact makes it far more concerning. It means to me that people with no want or capacity to communicate with other climbers will not encounter this strategy till knocking at crystal gate and will get a nasty surprise.

Well, I do hope that this discussion will help it all become a common knowledge, and you have been increadibly kind, so thank you, and all those who took time.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I keep reading "Guardian is a damage multiplier on the Paladin". While technically correct "if the Paladin stays close to his target", which sadly is what Guardian does initially - isn't the counter to this keeping distance to a target? Positioning and all that jazz.

And generally, given the 5s disparity between Guardian and Guard and having Holy Sheltron for personal use, doesn't it generally seem best practice to only use Guardian with Guard (or Phalanx) available?

Lastly, to the 3v5 talk when using this + elixir combo - it is 3v5 but whatever target is alive + yourself are still generating Limit Break and gain full ressources, so it isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

[RyanCousland]

I keep reading "Guardian is a damage multiplier on the Paladin". While technically correct "if the Paladin stays close to his target", which sadly is what Guardian does initially - isn't the counter to this keeping distance to a target? Positioning and all that jazz.

Almost every job has an attack within the 10y not much positioning can be done if you're not gonna rely on guard, and even if you do position yourself away from the fight, how does that help the pld, when 2 opponents can just easily attack the teammate under guardian with no repercussion and thereby get a kill regardless

And generally, given the 5s disparity between Guardian and Guard and having Holy Sheltron for personal use, doesn't it generally seem best practice to only use Guardian with Guard (or Phalanx) available?

Correct, but that kinda gives credence to everything that's been discussed

Lastly, to the 3v5 talk when using this + elixir combo - it is 3v5 but whatever target is alive + yourself are still generating Limit Break and gain full ressources, so it isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

So I'm a little confused are you saying guardian is a fair or unfair skill? Because that's what this thread is about, some consider it an unfair skill
To player attacking their opponent whereas I consider it fair to them but somewhat unfair to PLD