We should really update the reporting system

[IckeDerTyp]

Live and let live~

In a perfect world we wouldn't even need a report system at all!

[NekoMataMata]

Live and let live~

In a perfect world we wouldn't even need a report system at all!

We don't live in a perfect world though.

If something is truly offensive and worth reporting, it's worth going to that tiny bit of extra effort to do it.

If that extra effort is too much bother, then it's not something that was all that offensive in the first place.

Defending poor behavior again? Those are your rules, not the rules of the game.

How hard is it to imagine that the people that get home in the evenings from work/school/both are way too tired to bother filling out a lengthy report when someone decides to act up in their roulettes?

[Caddo]

How hard is it to imagine that the people that get home in the evenings from work/school/both are way too tired to bother filling out a lengthy report when someone decides to act up in their roulettes?

... It's not lenghty though.

Name, Server, Time, Description of what happened.

If this isn't worth the 2min to fill out then I don't think the report was nessecary. You know you can copy/paste peoples names into the reports, right? You can also copy paste what they said in the tidbit with a simple "They said this -paste-" and then give a quick summarily of why you think it's wrong.

[Kes13a]

Defending poor behavior again? Those are your rules, not the rules of the game.

How hard is it to imagine that the people that get home in the evenings from work/school/both are way too tired to bother filling out a lengthy report when someone decides to act up in their roulettes?

not sure how you saw that as defending bad behaviour

look, if they are too tired to fill out a report... maybe they should actually be sleeping instead of playing. in fact, if they are that tired, it may be best that they not file a report because, I know a lot of people that when they are that tired, are cranky and always take things the worst way possible. the person reporting is not always in the right, and exhaustion is the cause of a lot of mistakes, especially in judgement

[NekoMataMata]

not sure how you saw that as defending bad behaviour

look, if they are too tired to fill out a report... maybe they should actually be sleeping instead of playing. in fact, if they are that tired, it may be best that they not file a report because, I know a lot of people that when they are that tired, are cranky and always take things the worst way possible. the person reporting is not always in the right, and exhaustion is the cause of a lot of mistakes, especially in judgement

They're suggesting that people who are turned away from reporting because of how irritating the reporting process is have not experienced poor behavior, and therefore even behavior that might break ToS is not offensive to begin with.

Also sounds like quite the assumption on your part. Have you never had such an awful experience where you just want to close the game and log off for a bit? Oh right, you can't unless you want the people that caused said experiences to go without punishments.


Guess we all heard it right here though. If you think someone might report your poor behavior then go ahead, try to harass them until they've had enough and log out. Give them such awful experiences that they don't even think about filing reports, they just close the game.

[Jojoya]

Defending poor behavior again? Those are your rules, not the rules of the game.

How hard is it to imagine that the people that get home in the evenings from work/school/both are way too tired to bother filling out a lengthy report when someone decides to act up in their roulettes?

What is this supposed to mean? I'm not defending any bad behavior. I'm not making any rules. The game has created the rule to use the Support menu to report other players.

It's not difficult to enter player name, time/date and what you found offensive. The form that comes up is just a guideline and not every field has to be completed, let alone in detail. Just include the relevant information so the GMs can see what happened.

If you're that tired after a long day, it sounds more like you're irritable and taking offense at things that a rational person would understand aren't intended to be offensive. You might feel better by taking your bad mood out on others but you're not accomplishing anything.

Again, if it truly is offensive it's worth taking the 2-3 minutes to complete the ticket so the GM understands why you found it offensive.

If you need a right click option to press just to make yourself feel better, try using the Blacklist option that appears.

They're suggesting that people who are turned away from reporting because of how irritating the reporting process is have not experienced poor behavior, and therefore even behavior that might break ToS is not offensive to begin with.

Also sounds like quite the assumption on your part. Have you never had such an awful experience where you just want to close the game and log off for a bit? Oh right, you can't unless you want the people that caused said experiences to go without punishments.

I was suggesting no such thing.

Are you having another one of your bad days after work, or something?

Hmm, let's see. Things I do habitually that are punishable under the current TOS? Expecting basic competence and decorum from other players. No matter how politely worded or what have you, indicating to someone else it would be beneficial for the group for them to do X instead of Y is a punishable offense, even should them doing X instead of Y be absolutely integral to succeeding. This goes far beyond common sensibilities pretty much everywhere. And yes, I have had consequences for precisely this thing. No, the wording I used when addressing the individual was not rude or demanding - it was phrased as a very non-confrontational request for the individual to do what was needed of them, coupled with an equally non-confrontational explanation of why it would be better for them to do X instead of Y.

As for being reported, anyone that feels the need to tell you they're going to report you probably isn't actually going to do it. If they do, the fact they felt the need to tell you has a good chance of biting them in the posterior. Of note, the GMs have a lot on their plates at any given time. Most investigations are cursory at best, going only in-depth enough for them to ascertain whether or not the thing being reported took place. The circumstances surrounding that thing occurring are largely irrelevant. For this reason, I believe you might have a little too much faith in the process.

I can agree with the basic decorum part without issue.

Basic competence tends to be subjective and some players just are not as skilled as others. Without knowing the all the specific details of a situation, I really don't have the ability to say whether or not I agree that something should have been reported and that GMs should have taken action against the reported player.

But I do know, as I said earlier, I've never been contacted by a GM for something I've done even though I've made suggestions to other players in parties before. Why were you contacted and not me? Again, I can't say since I don't know the specifics of your situation and what was said.

GMs are also human and sometimes will make mistakes in judgement. If it's just an isolated situation where the GM ended up contacting you, it's nothing to stress over.

But if they've had to contact you on repeated occasions, there is something about the way that you are handling those situations that probably could be done better.

This is where the related discussions about clarity comes in. SE's thinking is backwards if they think being vague corrects problems. It doesn't. There needs to be detail if the player is to avoid making the same mistakes again in the future. Most players aren't going to switch to revenge mode over a report if they figure out who the reporter was. They're far more likely just to avoid that player in the future to prevent any other issues. If someone were to engage in retaliation, either directly or through proxy, then that's someone that has no business playing a MMO and should be perma-banned.

[NekoMataMata]

What is this supposed to mean? I'm not defending any bad behavior. I'm not making any rules. The game has created the rule to use the Support menu to report other players.

It's not difficult to enter player name, time/date and what you found offensive. The form that comes up is just a guideline and not every field has to be completed, let alone in detail. Just include the relevant information so the GMs can see what happened.

If you're that tired after a long day, it sounds more like you're irritable and taking offense at things that a rational person would understand aren't intended to be offensive. You might feel better by taking your bad mood out on others but you're not accomplishing anything.

Again, if it truly is offensive it's worth taking the 2-3 minutes to complete the ticket so the GM understands why you found it offensive.

If you need a right click option to press just to make yourself feel better, try using the Blacklist option that appears.


I was suggesting no such thing.

Are you having another one of your bad days after work, or something?

Right, instead of making a decent counter point you just reiterate yourself and attack me instead.

You still have yet to explain to me how people can break the ToS(regardless of whether it is offensive and aggressive towards other players or not), and yet at the same time they may not feel encouraged enough to report them for it.

[SannaR]

The only report template that takes a long time to fill out is the bug report. Did someone report you for spamming an emote? Which I mean if you want to do that then uncheck the box that shoves it into the chat log. Unless you have voice 5 for your cat girl and you're using one that makes sound. Then I'd understand that. Same with the lalafells that have that one annoying voice and spam their joy emote every millisecond. I find the others fairly easy to fill out.

[Amarande]

If you are bothered by the ToS, ask yourself why. What do you habitually do that you're afraid might get you in trouble? Is there a good reason for you to be doing that something or is it a case of "because I want to and I should be able to do what I want"? Any mature adult knows that we don't get to just do what we want, that there are still standards of interaction society expects us to follow.
And we also know that we need to accept the consequences for when we don't follow those standards, whether intentional or accidental.

Also, just because something gets reported doesn't mean the GMs will see it as a situation that needs action. I've been told by other players on a few occasions that they were going to report me for some presumed infraction and yet I've never had contact with a GM except in response to tickets I've opened myself.

I expect people see the horror stories and become afraid, especially for accounts that they've put a lot of time into and would be hard or impossible to redo from scratch (like FFXIV, or a Discord account with lots of servers and friends made, etc.).

The trouble is that the horror stories are outliers, but small risks of large losses are the most difficult to handle psychologically (and policy wise, even, to be quite blunt - especially when populations are large enough that any given ghastly corner case is likely to happen to someone statistically speaking), and in the case of online accounts, for various reasons the information that allows us to confirm just how much of an outlier is generally not available (while trolls will use the situation to try and spin doctor their legitimate ban into "I was a corner case, boohoo" threads).

Offensive language is probably the worst one because I've actually heard of friends who've gotten suspended almost immediately after the (justified or not) words were uttered, which runs very counter to how FFXIV is normally understood to work (i.e., reports are assumed to all be human reviewed), and suggests that there is a robot rubberstamp for this particular case - quite possibly matching the lovely profanity filter limitations (where even, say, "the thing is" will come out as "the thin? ??" in game chat ... so false positives are a very real possibility, but since they won't tell you what you did "to protect the reporter" ...)

The only report template that takes a long time to fill out is the bug report. Did someone report you for spamming an emote? Which I mean if you want to do that then uncheck the box that shoves it into the chat log. Unless you have voice 5 for your cat girl and you're using one that makes sound. Then I'd understand that. Same with the lalafells that have that one annoying voice and spam their joy emote every millisecond. I find the others fairly easy to fill out.

TBH a real issue on this one is probably sprouts: all those old Leves where you have to /beckon, for instance? Get it wrong a few times in a row because you don't know how to use emotes yet or don't realize you have to target the friendly NPC first? Your communications might be limited (free trial? Not in Novice Network yet? Oh, apparently free trials are understood to get shorter shrift when it comes to getting reported, too) so you can't or don't know how to ask for help?

Maybe emotes into the chat log should just be filtered out altogether, or it should be changed to a "see emotes in YOUR chat log" instead of "SEND emotes to people's chat logs" option, and the option to report for it removed at the same time?

[SannaR]

TBH a real issue on this one is probably sprouts: all those old Leves where you have to /beckon, for instance? Get it wrong a few times in a row because you don't know how to use emotes yet or don't realize you have to target the friendly NPC first? Your communications might be limited (free trial? Not in Novice Network yet? Oh, apparently free trials are understood to get shorter shrift when it comes to getting reported, too) so you can't or don't know how to ask for help?

Maybe emotes into the chat log should just be filtered out altogether, or it should be changed to a "see emotes in YOUR chat log" instead of "SEND emotes to people's chat logs" option, and the option to report for it removed at the same time?

When is the last time any of those zones or the area those leves take place were crowded? I doubt anyone would report a /beckon spam in those areas. Emotes I want to say have the same range as say chat does. If not shorter. The box also doesn't apply to those who use the /emote command as those will appear in chat regardless if it's been checked or not. There's been plenty of times when I've seen someone spamming one of those. Normally they're macroed as they do tend to have /handover or some other emote attached to them. Emote spam in the chat is also seen as rude when or if you attend an rp environment be that a tea house or a night club. The only sprouts I run into that are rude or choose to be rude is after I've asked them if they could stop spamming the chat with something or telling them that what they're doing can be seen as harassment according to the ToS.