The Definition of "Handsome"

[aveyond-dreams]

But if a boy not is masculine, if not what is it?

A full grown man. Secondary male characteristics. All of which G'raha Tia lacks.

[Melorie]

I think it's easier to just say "I find him ugly". End of story. Doing all these loops and arguments about he's not "masculine", or how he is a "boy, not a man", or how he was a man, but only back when he had stubble is unnecessary. Say "I want a greasy, full of stubble and muscles and big arms man that will hold me and protect me from primals" and it's easier, everyone will understand.

The rest is a meaningless debate regards WHAT should be masculine or not. To think that there's an answer set in stone for that question is a waste of time. At the end of the day every person has different limits of what they consider masculine or not.

[Carin-Eri]

Ok at this point it's clear that you aren't arguing in good faith. I am not going to waste time explaining why the Radiant Host guard with no eyebrows and a ridiculous haircut is not to the standard of the sort of hero types people usually go for.

Here's the character you seem to be looking for:

I mean he's basically the game's own Chad, isn't he. Surely he meets all the criteria for what YOU consider to be the proper appearance for a male?

[ZephyrMenodora]

Yeah, no. And any cases of such is taking the word and its meaning out of context. You're more than welcome to try though. I am all ears. You can start by looking up the definition of the word, 'Masculine'. You can also look up objective vs subjective.

There was a Vice panel of 8 to 10 men and their definition of masculinity and what it meant for them all varied, so I think in practical situations it is subjective.

Here's the character you seem to be looking for:

I mean he's basically the game's own Chad, isn't he. Surely he meets all the criteria for what YOU consider to be the proper appearance for a male?

I mentioned him earlier. Was shot down as not having eyebrows or something lol.

If we are really going to be that petty - I don't think Aveyond's hairstyle is masculine at all. There - I said it.

[SieyaM]

You're the one who made it anyone's concern. You stated this, remember?

Personally, I don't care what you find attractive, but I asked you a genuine question. Because if you can read between the lines, you should know that these aren't the only traits that make a man, a man. However, these characteristics are masculine. So if you don't think masculinity isn't the only thing that makes a man attractive, then what is left? What is left are boyish, effeminate men. If there is something else, then enlighten me. And in order to do that, you will have to mention what you find attractive.

I don't know, maybe they way they behave, the way they treat others, you know things that are not superficial? Also I guess that makes women with scars masculine which is news to me but alright then. Also no my preference for attraction isn't what's on discussion here, and that really is the whole point. If the OP doesn't find the men in XIV attractive then so what, this isn't made for that and their thoughts on masculinity and attraction do not dictate what characters are or aren't in the game. They can play a dating sim if that is really so important to them.

[Moonsprite]

A full grown man. Secondary male characteristics. All of which G'raha Tia lacks.

What? Seriously all cat guys have really defined muscles, even G’raha. How is that not a grown man? G’raha is intelligent, caring, selfless, has a fit body, and has a royal bloodline. That’s terrible and not manly? What is manly then?

[aveyond-dreams]

What has become apparent is that I've definitely had more exposure to what most adult men look and behave like both in real life and in other games. Not everyone has this frame of reference, hence the bizarre twists to try and justify this as masculine, with Lucy Pevensie's hairclip in his hair and all:

[Gemina]

Two questions

1. Could you tell us what those traits/demeanor/qualities/attributes are?

A quick Google search will provide that, and I would agree with many of them. Examples would be stoicism, aggressiveness, creativity, assertiveness, dominant/domineering, opposite of feminine.

2. Are the above a biological truth for males? Or more of a "that's just the way men traditionally were" thing?

If you read up on masculinity, it will tell you that the behavioral aspect of it is a social construct, and both sexes are capable of exhibiting these traits. As such, this portion is subject for debate. While there is truth to that, the thing is there still has to be a distinction between what is masculine and what is feminine otherwise such debates couldn't even exist. Such as, "Is Zero more masculine, or feminine?" Despite that we all know she is female.

This energy when taking a biological role determines physical traits within a given person that are either masculine or feminine. Broad shoulders, square jaw, tall stature, muscular physique, hirsute, deep voice, robustness. These are physical features that are associated with males. When females have these features, it is determined that they have a masculine appearance.

It because of these reasons why I say masculinity is not subject to an opinion. I am well aware how current education seeks to blur these lines, and obstruct this truth. And I refuse to yield. I will never concede to that nonsense. This distinction is so important to not only education, but to our longevity as species in this universe. Please, never forget.

[aveyond-dreams]

It because of these reasons why I say masculinity is not subject to an opinion. I am well aware how current education seeks to blur these lines, and obstruct this truth. And I refuse to yield. I will never concede to that nonsense. This distinction is so important to not only education, but to our longevity as species in this universe. Please, never forget.

Agreed. What is immediately obvious as to what is masculine or feminine really isn't up for debate. And what is also obvious is that the main cast is in dire need of some testosterone and none of it is coming from the two males we have now. A declawed Estinien and a KPOP singer crying about his sister are the last sort of men I care to put up with, the former because of what an insult it is to see him behave this way after previously enjoying his character and the other because there's nothing in the world that could make me care about his sob story.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

And what is also obvious is that the main cast is in dire need of some testosterone and none of it is coming from the two males we have now. A declawed Estinien and a KPOP singer crying about his sister are the last sort of men I care to put up with,

What game are you even playing at this point?
Estinien was Never Declawed, and we dont have a KPOP Singer in our group. Check your Game File, you might be playing Tokyo Mirage: Sessions