Duty Complete should mean duty complete :)

[MakoMight]

It is currently a cultural norm when using Party Finder to participate in duties on NA datacenters for parties to be at least 1-2 major phases/mechanics behind the listed prog point, and the scourge of "trap parties" is a universally accepted truth.

Part of the problem is that it's possible, and disappointingly common for duties above a certain difficulty level, to put "Duty Complete" as a recruitment criteria when partied with a friend who hasn't completed the duty... actually scratch that, anybody can start Duty Complete parties whenever they want regardless of completion status!

I have not completed The Omega Protocol and I should not be able to do this


What could possibly be the reason to allow this? Again, it's already common practice on NA for people to join parties far ahead of their actual prog point. Given SE's hardline stance on third party tools, are we supposed to take it on honor that people will not make "totem" or "reclear" parties hoping to trap veterans into helping themselves or their friends get carried to clears?

[Jeeqbit]

If someone is with a friend they are clearing, they usually say or you can see their job icon without hovering over it.

They probably shouldn't be able to do it when they themselves haven't cleared.

But to be honest I've used it myself once before when I wanted to clear something, but it had been a weekly reset and I didn't want to mess around with parties that didn't know what they were doing. I knew everything up to enrage but the parties weren't good enough or lacked DPS.

I don't really run into trap parties that say [Duty Complete] much but if there was a bonus it would show it and when it's seen, everyone has the choice to leave over it.

[Kranel_San]

I agree with you that it needs to be fixed.
I don't want to join a re-clear party that constantly gets wiped on silly mechanics, wasting my time because the party leader thought it very nice to have one or two friends with no clear in said party to get it.
Do you want a clear? Join a practice party!

[Gemina]

Mr. Happy just released a video on "Things you did not know." It's a playful video covering some reddit posts and people admit things like not knowing they could vendor to their own retainers at the same rate used at shops. I was trying to think of something I did not know, and I definitely did not know this. It's very rare for me to start up my own PF.

While I believe everyone should expect wipes for any PF group, this is still dishonest and should be fixed.

[Saraide]

Yea lying about prog points is awful. As is using duty complete without having completed the duty. I have no problems with clear for friend parties existing when they are honest about it but not saying it anything and then seeing the little notification about how someone hasnt clear this duty would make me instantly distrust the PF host.

[TomsYoungerBro]

I don't agree that this practice is common without at least putting a C4x in the description which gives you complete visibility before joining. Trap parties in Duty completes happen all the time with all 8 people having a clear. As you go up the difficulty of content, it will just happen more. I have watched people who have only cleared an ult on a specific role just join as a completely different role (ex. Tank -> healer) and just wall the party in the first phase. Rust can play a factor, or sometimes people have off days. There are times too when people just got lucky when they cleared. UWU duty completes when people can't do titan gaols because their only clear is when they didn't get the 3/7 chance of having it, or people just aren't super consistent yet (they need more clears, more reps).

As Jeeqbit mentioned, if anything the [Duty Complete] function saves those who have seen and are comfortable on everything (or people clearing their alt), but just can't find a suitable party because people keep joining parties way passed their prog point. C4x parties would almost vanish, and trap parties would still be everywhere.

[Raikai]

Yea lying about prog points is awful. As is using duty complete without having completed the duty. I have no problems with clear for friend parties existing when they are honest about it but not saying it anything and then seeing the little notification about how someone hasnt clear this duty would make me instantly distrust the PF host.

I honestly don't know how someone has the gall to say that they got to "prog point x/y/z" but without a clue of how they managed to get past previous phases.

My 1st Rubicante EX clear happened just by sheer luck of surviving Flamespire, but I can't get myself to join clear parties just yet without having full grasp of those.

[Jeeqbit]

I don't agree that this practice is common without at least putting a C4x in the description which gives you complete visibility before joining. Trap parties in Duty completes happen all the time with all 8 people having a clear. As you go up the difficulty of content, it will just happen more. I have watched people who have only cleared an ult on a specific role just join as a completely different role (ex. Tank -> healer) and just wall the party in the first phase. Rust can play a factor, or sometimes people have off days. There are times too when people just got lucky when they cleared. UWU duty completes when people can't do titan gaols because their only clear is when they didn't get the 3/7 chance of having it, or people just aren't super consistent yet (they need more clears, more reps).

To add to this, just because someone cleared doesn't mean they fully had the mechanics down, especially the last few mechanics. It's common to get killed by the last mechanics, get a rez and then the rest just finish it off and the next time, the death in those last mechanics wipes everyone.

A big factor is habits. You are used to the habits of your previous parties. Certain markers, certain positions, certain strategies, different degrees of healing that necessitate different amounts of healing by the other healer and different amounts of mitigation by the tanks. Then you have people who subtly move at different times in the mechanic or in different ways and throw you off. Getting used to other people's habits can take multiple pulls and PF sometimes lacks patience for this.

Personally, if I don't feel comfortable with any mechanic at all, I go back to the practice parties or return to studying it, even when I've cleared it, but I don't find most people considerate like that. From their perspective, if they have seen a mechanic once then they are up to that mechanic, even if they can't get up to it cleanly, or they just don't read the description in the first place. The result is trap parties.

[MakoMight]

I don't agree that this practice is common without at least putting a C4x in the description which gives you complete visibility before joining. Trap parties in Duty completes happen all the time with all 8 people having a clear. As you go up the difficulty of content, it will just happen more. I have watched people who have only cleared an ult on a specific role just join as a completely different role (ex. Tank -> healer) and just wall the party in the first phase. Rust can play a factor, or sometimes people have off days. There are times too when people just got lucky when they cleared. UWU duty completes when people can't do titan gaols because their only clear is when they didn't get the 3/7 chance of having it, or people just aren't super consistent yet (they need more clears, more reps).

As Jeeqbit mentioned, if anything the [Duty Complete] function saves those who have seen and are comfortable on everything (or people clearing their alt), but just can't find a suitable party because people keep joining parties way passed their prog point. C4x parties would almost vanish, and trap parties would still be everywhere.

Ridiculous. You can open up party finder every day and see c4x with and without duty complete. There are duty complete parties that do put c4x in the description and there are ones that don't. There are totem parties where the bonus tomestome message shows up when you instance in, and duty complete farm parties where a bunch of people get an achievement for clearing at the end. Nobody said this would get rid of trap parties, the problem is you can list parties with conditions that you or your friend do not fill, then you can (optionally) be honest and up front about it.

The ones who would be hurt by this are not the honest and considerate ones, it is the people who think well I deem myself more clear or prog worthy than everyone else so I can join parties past my actual prog or completion status, and I am willing to put up dishonest listings to get party members who are beyond my completion status. These people are not at all uncommon! In fact a few have showed up in this thread

[TomsYoungerBro]

Ridiculous. You can open up party finder every day and see c4x with and without duty complete. There are duty complete parties that do put c4x in the description and there are ones that don't. There are totem parties where the bonus tomestome message shows up when you instance in, and duty complete farm parties where a bunch of people get an achievement for clearing at the end. Nobody said this would get rid of trap parties, the problem is you can list parties with conditions that you or your friend do not fill.

The ones who would be hurt by this are people who think well I deem myself more clear or prog worthy than everyone else so I can join parties past my actual prog or completion status, and I am willing to put up dishonest listings to get party members who are beyond my completion status. These people are not at all uncommon! In fact a few have showed up in this thread

The concept of a c4x is that the people coming into help you have cleared. For people putting up a "c41" in a non-duty complete party, those usually end up being Clear for 4s, 5s + because anyone can join since it is essentially a clear party. C41s and C4alts will basically vanish because they are now just Enrage/Clear parties. Like you said before, in PF people constantly jump into parties way passed their prog or comfortability point.

The concept of PF listing is to define what the PF lister is looking for. All you will get from this change is less PFs, slower-filling PFs, and still plenty of trap parties. If you join a party that is a farm and that person clearly hasn't cleared or knows what they are doing, blacklist them and move on.