Inconsistencies with the sundering (Spoilers)

[Atelier-Bagur]

I suppose that could be the case, but then the idea that Zodiark has the potential to be that powerful introduces an additional inconsistency. With that kind of difference in power where just 1/14th of Zodiark's aether is enough to stop meteion, the ancients (barring venat's personal moral opinion that people should suffer) could just summon zodiark, have him kill meteion because he's so much more powerful than meteion in this scenario, and then work on restoring etheirys. We already know from the game's cutscenes that "Dynamis is a far weaker form of energy, and is almost completely nullified by Aether in equal quantities." If just 1/14th of Zodiark's aether is enough to nullify meteion, we can assume that zodiark can kill meteion with an additional fraction of his aether, then use his remaining aether to restore the world. Of course these are just fan theories at this point, but the hypothetical scenario that Zodiark is indeed that aetherically powerful creates more possibilities that might be better alternatives to sundering the world.

You forget that Meteion was at the edge of the universe. The Ancients could'nt have killed her even if they tried, nor even then be able to manipulate and counter the gathered dynamis in Ultima Thule to their advantage. The Ancients were focused on rebuilding their world than wanting to fight despair.

Even then if we're going to start nitpicking the story like this, then we might as well go ALL the way back to every single thing in this story to nitpick some of the power inconsistencies if this is truly such a bother. Why is a single WoL more powerful than another set of WoLs? How come Nidhogg took his sweet time to ravage Ishgard unless if we're treating him like Meteion....maybe he wasnt trying hard enough? How come the Garleans with all their superior magitek still lost the war? What about Emet-Selch whom lived multiple lives and for thousand of years suddenly thought "oh I wonder if maybe I try to understand these people and follow them". Its stuff like this when you start dissecting a simple jrpg story causes more unnecessary crutches and issues that would make the average story cynic have an aneurysm.

[PeaTearGriffin]

You forget that Meteion was at the edge of the universe. The Ancients could'nt have killed her even if they tried, nor even then be able to manipulate and counter the gathered dynamis in Ultima Thule to their advantage. The Ancients were focused on rebuilding their world than wanting to fight despair.

Even then if we're going to start nitpicking the story like this, then we might as well go ALL the way back to every single thing in this story to nitpick some of the power inconsistencies if this is truly such a bother. Why is a single WoL more powerful than another set of WoLs? How come Nidhogg took his sweet time to ravage Ishgard unless if we're treating him like Meteion....maybe he wasnt trying hard enough? How come the Garleans with all their superior magitek still lost the war? What about Emet-Selch whom lived multiple lives and for thousand of years suddenly thought "oh I wonder if maybe I try to understand these people and follow them". Its stuff like this when you start dissecting a simple jrpg story causes more unnecessary crutches and issues that would make the average story cynic have an aneurysm.

Hermes designed a being that could reach the edge of the universe. The people from the source designed a ship that could reach the edge of the universe. Suddenly going to the edge of the universe is impossible? Also the scenario we're discussing includes a fan theory that involves a much more powerful zodiark. You're not keeping up with the discussion.

There's no need to shut down players examining the story with more granularity. If you can't handle that, this might not be the best thread for you to stick around in.

[SannaR]

Hermes designed a being that could reach the edge of the universe. The people from the source designed a ship that could reach the edge of the universe. Suddenly going to the edge of the universe is impossible? Also the scenario we're discussing includes a fan theory that involves a much more powerful zodiark. You're not keeping up with the discussion.

There's no need to shut down players examining the story with more granularity. If you can't handle that, this might not be the best thread for you to stick around in.

The ancients would have needed to know that the 1st summoning of Zodiark had actually done the job and not have delayed the Final Days. It took a giant crystal formed over 12,000 years turned into the form of various primals to get a ship to the edge of the universe. Remember the only person we know for certain that knew about Meteion by the time the Final Days started was Venat. Also if this is going to turn into another oh my law the writing of this expansion is so crap there's already a thread about that. You'll also probably just get a lot more push back because this topic has been beaten to death and rehashed that even Death themselves has gotten tired. It's over a year now.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Hermes designed a being that could reach the edge of the universe. The people from the source designed a ship that could reach the edge of the universe. Suddenly going to the edge of the universe is impossible? Also the scenario we're discussing includes a fan theory that involves a much more powerful zodiark. You're not keeping up with the discussion.

There's no need to shut down players examining the story with more granularity. If you can't handle that, this might not be the best thread for you to stick around in.

Just trying to put some perspective because a lot of these points feel like nitpicks. Again Ive addressed that the Ancients themselves were too focused on rebuilding their world to even consider going to the edge of the universe. It was certainly possible but their own crutches with lack of dynamis wouldnt have gotten them far. Also yeah, they were able to create beings like Meteion who could do it for them, but look how well that turned out for them.

[Alleo]

Hermes designed a being that could reach the edge of the universe. The people from the source designed a ship that could reach the edge of the universe. Suddenly going to the edge of the universe is impossible? Also the scenario we're discussing includes a fan theory that involves a much more powerful zodiark. You're not keeping up with the discussion.

There's no need to shut down players examining the story with more granularity. If you can't handle that, this might not be the best thread for you to stick around in.

There is more to it than just traveling there. Remember that Ultima Thule did not exist as a visible space until Thancred sacrificed himself? Or that each single scion bascially needed to overpower the Meteions with their answers while nearly dieing?

So even if they reached her I doubt they would have been able to interact with her.

I am really not sure why some dont understand that her scene was not meant to show us how it exactly happened? We know that the second round of sacrifices restored the planet, yet when we see Venat and the group of ancients talk the city is still burning and in ruins and even one of the beasts is still flying around. That should really be enough of a hint that what its shown is not what truly is happening.

[Wanzzo]

I suppose that could be the case, but then the idea that Zodiark has the potential to be that powerful introduces an additional inconsistency. With that kind of difference in power where just 1/14th of Zodiark's aether is enough to stop meteion, the ancients (barring venat's personal moral opinion that people should suffer) could just summon zodiark, have him kill meteion because he's so much more powerful than meteion in this scenario, and then work on restoring etheirys. We already know from the game's cutscenes that "Dynamis is a far weaker form of energy, and is almost completely nullified by Aether in equal quantities." If just 1/14th of Zodiark's aether is enough to nullify meteion, we can assume that zodiark can kill meteion with an additional fraction of his aether, then use his remaining aether to restore the world. Of course these are just fan theories at this point, but the hypothetical scenario that Zodiark is indeed that aetherically powerful creates more possibilities that might be better alternatives to sundering the world.

maybe...because Venat met us at Elpis and we told her what happened with our world, all the shards, where we are from, about Hydaelyn, etc. So, Venat could have just make things in order to keep our existence in her future possible (by sundering Zodiark and becoming Hydaelyn) since we and she was the only ones to know exactly about Meteion and the Final Days's source. If she changes history, our existence or knowledge could be neutralized or worthless.

About Zodiark "restoring the world" I understood that it was impossible. Zodiark is a Primal and the top most aether consuming at that. In order to keep him you have basicaly to destroy the life in the world. All creations must have to be given to him as "sacrifices" from time to time to keep him existing, as we learn in ShB. So, the very existence of Zodiark in it's full form is a threat to the planet itself. The sundering could make him weaker in a way that he could not be summoned anymore (prision at the Moon) and sacrifices made to him not more possible (that's why the unsundered tried to Rejoin all reflexes through Calamities in order to give Zodiark power enough to free himself).

I think these 2 points (our very existence that Venat met at Elpis and the necessity to weaken Zodiark's power before he consumes all the world to keep existing), are reason enough to justify the sundering instead of doing something else ( but I agree about trying to use Zodiark to kill Meteion before the sundering).

[Absimiliard]

About Zodiark "restoring the world" I understood that it was impossible. Zodiark is a Primal and the top most aether consuming at that. In order to keep him you have basicaly to destroy the life in the world. All creations must have to be given to him as "sacrifices" from time to time to keep him existing, as we learn in ShB. So, the very existence of Zodiark in it's full form is a threat to the planet itself. The sundering could make him weaker in a way that he could not be summoned anymore (prision at the Moon) and sacrifices made to him not more possible (that's why the unsundered tried to Rejoin all reflexes through Calamities in order to give Zodiark power enough to free himself).

This is actually incorrect. We were told explicitly that Zodiark indeed could (and did) restore the world. The first summoning fully healed the world, the second populated it with new life in the same vein as what the ancients put forth prior with their own creation magics. The third sacrifice would have used a portion of that created life (or rather its descendants, born through natural reproduction after the initial models were created by Zodiark) to resurrect everyone whose life was given to summon Zodiark in the first place. Furthermore, neither Zodiark nor Hydaelyn consume aether just by existing; that's a flaw introduced in modern primals. Neither would they require continuous sacrifices to go on existing, and they did not drain aether form the surrounding environment whatsoever. Thus, neither of them posed any kind of actual threat to the planet merely by existing.

Simply put, the sacrifices were there primarily to fuel Zodiark's powers on a large scale without necessitating that he consume the ancient souls within. Zodiark's directives are to heal and protect the world, and keep those souls safe for the time when they may be returned to life. Tasks such as healing the entire world, inside and out, after the effects of the Final Days are monumental indeed, as would be seeding an entire planet with enough new life to provide the necessary genetic diversity for it to become self-sustaining. When doing anything else, like say shielding Etheirys, he required only so much aether as could be safely provided by the souls within.

The sundering did not weaken Zodiark in such a way he couldn't be "summoned" anymore, it took the entity itself, which still physically existed (i.e. it was still "summoned"), and split it across the shards so that its shield could continue to protect Etheirys in the long term.

[Wanzzo]

This is actually incorrect. We were told explicitly that Zodiark indeed could (and did) restore the world. The first summoning fully healed the world, the second populated it with new life in the same vein as what the ancients put forth prior with their own creation magics. The third sacrifice would have used a portion of that created life to resurrect everyone whose life was given to summon Zodiark in the first place. Furthermore, neither Zodiark nor Hydaelyn consume aether just by existing; that's a flaw introduced in modern primals. Neither would they require continuous sacrifices to go on existing, and they did not drain aether form the surrounding environment whatsoever. Thus, neither of them posed any kind of actual threat to the planet merely by existing.

The sundering did not weaken Zodiark in such a way he couldn't be "summoned" anymore, it took the entity itself, which still physically existed (i.e. it was still "summoned"), and split it across the shards so that its shield could continue to product Etheirys in the long term.

ohh thank you!

I have to revise the cutscenes. Probably i misunderstood that part with Y'shtola after we reach that Library created by Emet at the ocean.

Anyway, really thanks for clarifying that to me
+1 Kupo.

[Kaurhz]

Honestly, a lot of the cutscenes, like Hydaelyn walking, or doing the sundering were just meant to be symbolic/representational, and not necessarily taken to be an accurate depiction of events. To accurately depict these in cutscenes would be a pretty exorbitant amount of time otherwise. The way I view what Zodiark did for the shard was/is just akin to what the Ozone layer does for us, essentially. I suppose in this regard... Sun = Meteion, Ozone layer = Zodiark.

I think the flowers etc., reacting to emotions is just more of a natural phenomenon than a deliberate manipulation of dynamis itself. That being said (and I may be misremembering), I don't think it was ever explicitly stated that they could not interact with dynamis, just that they weren't very good at doing so.

On the topic of Dyanmis, it's not really an avenue I liked to see - Or rather, it's an avenue that should have been explored and mentioned far, far earlier in the story - They've essentially built a foundation, albeit a very weak foundation, and most of this just lends itself to dynamis only being introduced in this expansion.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Honestly, a lot of the cutscenes, like Hydaelyn walking, or doing the sundering were just meant to be symbolic/representational, and not necessarily taken to be an accurate depiction of events. To accurately depict these in cutscenes would be a pretty exorbitant amount of time otherwise. The way I view what Zodiark did for the shard was/is just akin to what the Ozone layer does for us, essentially. I suppose in this regard... Sun = Meteion, Ozone layer = Zodiark.

I think the flowers etc., reacting to emotions is just more of a natural phenomenon than a deliberate manipulation of dynamis itself. That being said (and I may be misremembering), I don't think it was ever explicitly stated that they could not interact with dynamis, just that they weren't very good at doing so.

On the topic of Dyanmis, it's not really an avenue I liked to see - Or rather, it's an avenue that should have been explored and mentioned far, far earlier in the story - They've essentially built a foundation, albeit a very weak foundation, and most of this just lends itself to dynamis only being introduced in this expansion.

You can sort of feel like this was being foreshadowed in various parts of the story though, and funny enough with some of the new ARR solo instance reworks they seem to retroactively try to implement its usage much early on, such as how Rhitahtyn used dynamis to continue fighting.