Remove stunlock from PvP

[Plastic_Fork]

Frontline, Crystal Conflict, and Rival Wings have been reduced to a circus of who presses the stun button first, or the most. How are any of these formats fun for people when you spend half the match (or more) unable to act or use abilities? There's hardly any skill involved anymore. Just stun kills or excessive stunlocks by groups. I've spent 10 seconds in total stunlock unable to act, do anything, or use any abilities before one-shot killed by a melee or physical ranged. Or stun killed in under two seconds from full health with shields while I have zero ability to mitigate anything. This is the desired gameplay by the devs?

Purify is worthless. Clear one stun only to be followed by six more. Resilience does not give any resistance to anything once used, or used prior to being stunned. It doesn't work.

Guard only buys you 5 seconds of life before you're stun killed again unless by some miracle you can run away. Some abilities cancel Guard. So it's useless if the opponent is the right class.

I rarely post here but pvp is not fun anymore. They need to get rid of stunlocks and actually do something with the classes besides making all of these formats one gimmick fights.

[True-to-Caesar]

10 seconds if you’re dps, as tank it’s 20s+ : stun, pigmorph ability from White Mage you CAN’T freaking purge, bind, silence…

Feels worse than vanilla WoW in that regard.

Guard even without facing monk/ninja/samurai is buggy and many attacks do full damage/CC goes through. It’s similar to using a tank invulnerability in PvE and even though you pressed it, you die. Trash server tick or something.

Some jobs being absolute jokes, meanwhile you mainly see DRK premade stacks, warriors, white mages, monks, ninjas (insane escape), some samurais and a freakton of dragoons.

It’s not balanced, will not be (they’d have hotfixed a lot of shit if they had any intention to make it a healthy mode). Just add it to the pile of reasons why PvP is dogcrap in MMOs and will always be.

[Valence]

Purify is worthless. Clear one stun only to be followed by six more. Resilience does not give any resistance to anything once used, or used prior to being stunned. It doesn't work.

It works. Any incoming stun when you have the purify buff up will not work.

It’s similar to using a tank invulnerability in PvE and even though you pressed it, you die. Trash server tick or something.

That's because you have to know how ability snapshotting works. It's like in pve yes, and it's very not intuitive, but there is actual consistency behind. If you guard after a skill has been snapshot (used), it will go through your guard, as simple as that, even if the damage resolution happens a full GCD later.

So, it's not buggy, but a more legitimate complaint would be about the system itself. Personally I don't mind, because I understand how it works and whether I see the damage numbers and the skill resolution immediately at use or a bit later doesn't matter. I'd rather have that than, an actually delayed application after you press a button.

Some jobs being absolute jokes, meanwhile you mainly see DRK premade stacks, warriors, white mages, monks, ninjas (insane escape), some samurais and a freakton of dragoons.

It’s not balanced, will not be (they’d have hotfixed a lot of shit if they had any intention to make it a healthy mode).

FLs has never been balanced and if you're looking for balance there, you're just gonna be disappointed. But I agree that it's a legitimate complaint and they should really take the time to do something about it, although with that kind of comments I understand why they don't even want to bother tbh.

[Kathleen_]

I really really wonder what you all are doing when you say that Resilience doesn't work.

[Kansene]

Resilience definitely works, but like everything else it's hyper janky, like hitting a SAM a full second after their buff falls off and still getting the debuff. Like casting an instant heal on someone that waits for 2 sec before going off with the guy dying meanwhile, then your heal going off on a corpse and you still lose the heal charge.
Like popping LB as a dragoon and flying into the air, then taking a lot of damage that snapshotted before you LB'd, ending up as a flying corpse that also just spent their LB which doesn't even land.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I really really wonder what you all are doing when you say that Resilience doesn't work.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, CC *can* slip between the recovery of Purify and the application of Resilience. Had it happen to myself and caused it to others.

[True-to-Caesar]

It works. Any incoming stun when you have the purify buff up will not work.



That's because you have to know how ability snapshotting works. It's like in pve yes, and it's very not intuitive, but there is actual consistency behind. If you guard after a skill has been snapshot (used), it will go through your guard, as simple as that, even if the damage resolution happens a full GCD later.

So, it's not buggy, but a more legitimate complaint would be about the system itself. Personally I don't mind, because I understand how it works and whether I see the damage numbers and the skill resolution immediately at use or a bit later doesn't matter. I'd rather have that than, an actually delayed application after you press a button.



FLs has never been balanced and if you're looking for balance there, you're just gonna be disappointed. But I agree that it's a legitimate complaint and they should really take the time to do something about it, although with that kind of comments I understand why they don't even want to bother tbh.

It’s not the same as PvE regarding the invulnerability. It’s a server tickrate issue, with the exact problem you mentioned being a delay between the time you pressed the skill and the server registering it way too late. Happens regularly when tanking. The exact same happens with Guard, not just for «snapped abilities» (crowd control), damage goes through aswell after pressing Guard so the whole thing was pointless. Many reported this issue because it’s basically the same with tank invulnerabilities in PvE.

As for frontline of course it will never really be balanced but having some work done individually on the jobs would go a long way. Having a mode left untouched with a few potency tweaks instead of regular fixes to prevent BS does not incite people to play this mode.

Simple as that, no need to find excuses for the devs since they do not read the English forums. And with some threads here, it’s indeed not surprising.

[Valence]

It’s not the same as PvE regarding the invulnerability. It’s a server tickrate issue, with the exact problem you mentioned being a delay between the time you pressed the skill and the server registering it way too late. Happens regularly when tanking. The exact same happens with Guard, not just for «snapped abilities» (crowd control), damage goes through aswell after pressing Guard so the whole thing was pointless. Many reported this issue because it’s basically the same with tank invulnerabilities in PvE.

As for frontline of course it will never really be balanced but having some work done individually on the jobs would go a long way. Having a mode left untouched with a few potency tweaks instead of regular fixes to prevent BS does not incite people to play this mode.

Simple as that, no need to find excuses for the devs since they do not read the English forums. And with some threads here, it’s indeed not surprising.

-> Animation delays, like in pve, are an incompressible thing. Most skills in pve have between 0.4 and 0.7s (or very close to it) of animation delay/lock. This doesn't equate to the visual animation FX, which is usually much longer and gets cut if you initiate something else.
-> Server registration is tied to your latency, if your ping sucks, like in many pvp games, you'll be left at a disadvantage.
-> In pvp, cc happens directly at snapshot, so when the server registers your activation of the ability. Again, if your latency is low, cc will insta snapshot on the opponent.
-> Damage resolution happens after the visual animation is considered done, or when the visual impact is shown. This can happen a gcd or more after the snapshot activation.
-> In pve, tank invulns, benediction, etc, are known to go through only after a big delay. Nothing in pvp happens when it comes to cc happens delayed like this. Support abilities can however, like Guardian that waits for the gap closer to be done, etc.

In short, cc will NEVER go through guard. If it does, then it's your latency that sucks and your client showed yourself under guard when server side you were not (slight note, I know that some skills can go on cooldown even though they don't register server side, that happens in pve too and it's a problem).

People need to understand that if damage went through their guard, it's because the skill at the origin of that damage was activated way before they used guard, even if the damage resolution happens after and the numbers show after.

[True-to-Caesar]

-> Animation delays, like in pve, are an incompressible thing. Most skills in pve have between 0.4 and 0.7s (or very close to it) of animation delay/lock. This doesn't equate to the visual animation FX, which is usually much longer and gets cut if you initiate something else.
-> Server registration is tied to your latency, if your ping sucks, like in many pvp games, you'll be left at a disadvantage.
-> In pvp, cc happens directly at snapshot, so when the server registers your activation of the ability. Again, if your latency is low, cc will insta snapshot on the opponent.
-> Damage resolution happens after the visual animation is considered done, or when the visual impact is shown. This can happen a gcd or more after the snapshot activation.
-> In pve, tank invulns, benediction, etc, are known to go through only after a big delay. Nothing in pvp happens when it comes to cc happens delayed like this. Support abilities can however, like Guardian that waits for the gap closer to be done, etc.

In short, cc will NEVER go through guard. If it does, then it's your latency that sucks and your client showed yourself under guard when server side you were not (slight note, I know that some skills can go on cooldown even though they don't register server side, that happens in pve too and it's a problem).

People need to understand that if damage went through their guard, it's because the skill at the origin of that damage was activated way before they used guard, even if the damage resolution happens after and the numbers show after.

Still doesn’t explain why guard gets damage through it while using it, and I’m excluding ninja/monk/samurai abilities that can bypass it. Again, similar to tanks invulnerabilities it’s the servers not being good enough or the game itself, plain and simple. Sorry if I don’t have the technical words to describe it properly. It doesn’t always happen, but from time to time, it does, just like tank invulnerabilities.

My latency is more than fine, I play Mordhau, missing a parry can be instant death and I never had an occasion where I’m like « damn seems like there’s a minor delay with my key pressing and what’s on screen » unless the server was laggy af for everyone. When I die in that game, I usually know why I messed up.

It’s the same for WoW unless the server itself was unstable, yes that happens. There’s definitely games way more responsive than FFXIV.
So excuse me if I’m inclined to think FF servers are not exactly the most stable on the market. Either that or there’s something in the game making it not responsive as it could be.

[Kathleen_]

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, CC *can* slip between the recovery of Purify and the application of Resilience. Had it happen to myself and caused it to others.

The window between purify and resilience getting applied is so incredibly small though that it makes me think something else is going wrong here. I mostly play FL and even against 10 people throwing CC at you, to me at least, it's happened so rarely and mostly against ASTs before Gravity got fixed. It's such an unlikely occurrence that statements like "purify is worthless" are absolute nonsense. In about 2.5k FL matches I played after the rework I've died probably less than 15 times to this. I don't think I've ever had it happen in CC after the Gravity fix.