Far Northern Attire

[Greyhawk]

Culture has no property, yet a culture doesn't exist without it's people. Culture, traditions, ancestral techniques and knowledge are maintained and passed on by a specific group of people that nurture it. Culture is also a choice and it's not hollow, it has context and people behind it. If society is not able to actually include the people that are making this culture alive and hold the knowledge, involving it into artistic processes and the production of entertainment regarding that culture, it dies.

EXACTLY THE POINT HERE! And I bet you didn't even realize it. This is exactly what is going on with a video game attire! OMG, and you are advocating against it, L.O.L.

Yes, this is a video-game, but the mind-set is the same. You might want to try pick a game and act like it's something that has little to do with society and how you view the world but at the end of the day a video-game is a product of the entertainment industry. The logistics behind the company choices impact things, it exists, it is part of our world, it's not your safe bubble so I'm not sure why you can't bring important discussions into it. You can bring a mashup of different cultures, and histories and narratives with morals and values and messages but you can't talk about a discussion present in the real world? Oh please, spare me. People love to talk about how "deep" and "beautiful" ffxiv history specially because it talks about society, but they still want to think that a video-game shouldn't allow any discussions that exist in the real world when it constantly benefits from it.

New World set in game. 'Nuff said. Why aren't you screaming about that attire in game? If any set was culture appropriation, it's this one! What about the entire theme of Radz-at-Han and the culture there? Why aren't you mad about culture appropriation there?
And, what the hell are you even talking about? Who said we couldn't have discussion about it? You are pointing out that I disagree with this Sami Council money grab tactic, and I'm saying we can't discuss it? Where did I say that? Your implications about not being able to discuss it versus video game content is astounding. Truly.

I know this isn't about me, and it's not even about you contrary to your private legendary opinion. I wasn't even comparing myself to this - I was pointing out a simple fact of how overboard, woke shit, overly sensitive people are being about video game attire - and no one here is affected - at all - about it. Sami Council isn't offended - they are mad because they aren't making anything from it, and that is the core issue. It's not offensive, they just don't have their name on the shirt tag.

Hypocrites.

[Melorie]

EXACTLY THE POINT HERE! And I bet you didn't even realize it. This is exactly what is going on with a video game attire! OMG, and you are advocating against it, L.O.L.

You clearly don't get my point. The Sami people are the ones making this alive, not you wearing an outfit. THEY are the ones that hold the knowledge, nurture it, pass it on for generations, make the decisions that change that particular culture. THEY should be involved.

I know this isn't about me, and it's not even about you contrary to your private legendary opinion. I wasn't even comparing myself to this - I was pointing out a simple fact of how overboard, woke shit, overly sensitive people are being about video game attire - and no one here is affected - at all - about it. Sami Council isn't offended - they are mad because they aren't making anything from it, and that is the core issue. It's not offensive, they just don't have their name on the shirt tag.

Hypocrites.

Who said I have zero opinions on the New World, or even Thavnair and many other instances? I could spend all day here talking, but we're talking about the Sami subject. So because I didn't made a topic regarding the New World attire or whatever, I can't talk about the whole-instance regarding traditional attire? You literally can't know what is my opinion regarding everything that there's in the game, I'm not sure why you're assuming you do. Besides, every post I'm advocating that there should be new, better ways for the entertainment industry handling the act of getting inspiration from cultures around the world.

Again, it's also not a matter of being offended? After having your knowledge being used as a way for making profit for a giant company, why is it soo surprising they see the opportunity for financial compensation? It doesn't seem like a big deal to me. If anything I say the people treating this as something absurd are the sensitive ones.

Ding ding. Throwing around the whole "woke" thingy. That's all I need to know. You people are always the same, of course. Keep acting like a video game is a fairy-bubblesque world that isn't related to real world discussions, politics and blablabla. While you consume media that only exists because there's politics, there's discussion, there's culture in the real world.

[Kes13a]

I am not for any kind of racism, but really? "cultural appropriation"?

they wear scarves/shawls resembling a tartan, are they going to go after the scottish too? or can the scottish go after them?

I dont know, sure, its similar because they are both a dress, I think its a reach, maybe its because of the colouring and it was named "northern attire"?

what can SE do? I have heard that the store offerings are independent designs not done by the FFxiv team, so, who knows. They may change the description to "inspired by Sami culture" but I am not sure if they would do more than that.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Still having trouble with that empathy thing I see aveyond. Like it or not, real world 'drama' and politics are already apart of the game. Heck, were you not one of the players who said that the treatment of Garlemald in EW/the final Job quest was some form of commentary against Russia's recent actions by the writers? You can dissagree with the Saami Council like most eveyone here does, but do you not think they perhaps have a right to at least comment on how aspects of their culture is used?

Being fair, the behavior of the group makes it challenging to have much empathy in this situation. Of course people have a right to comment how their culture is portrayed. This group was free to use the release of this outfit in a positive way, opening up educational opportunities for a culture many people probably don't even know exists. What better launching board than a popular global entertainment product!?

Going to the group's Twitter, they don't even seem to find the outfit to be bad representation or offensive. Instead they have a Gif saying SquareEnix has a lot of money, demanding that they remove the outfit (or give them money, essentially).

Twitter shakedowns where there appears to be no legal leg to stand upon aren't the most endearing ways to get people to appreciate your culture. As an attorney, it would be a legal nightmare to even attempt to codify IP rights to a culture on such a broad scale to include basic clothing, which is why such rights do not seem to presently exist in regards to global IP despite attempts by some groups to advocate for them.

Moreover, there isn't a legal right or requirement for any culture to give their seal of approval before it is represented in media. A country can ban media it finds problematic. A cultural community can choose not to support a product and speak out against representation it doesn't agree with. But no cultural group can require that it be immune to critique or interpretation on a global scale, or require that they have to have a say in how they are represented in all products, or are entitled to money for any product even vaguely featuring an aspect of the culture.

[Hurlstone]

Being fair, the behavior of the group makes it challenging to have much empathy in this situation. Of course people have a right to comment how their culture is portrayed. This group was free to use the release of this outfit in a positive way, opening up educational opportunities for a culture many people probably don't even know exists. What better launching board than a popular global entertainment product!?

Going to the group's Twitter, they don't even seem to find the outfit to be bad representation or offensive. Instead they have a Gif saying SquareEnix has a lot of money, demanding that they remove the outfit (or give them money, essentially).

Twitter shakedowns where there appears to be no legal leg to stand upon aren't the most endearing ways to get people to appreciate your culture. As an attorney, it would be a legal nightmare to even attempt to codify IP rights to a culture on such a broad scale to include basic clothing, which is why such rights do not seem to presently exist in regards to global IP despite attempts by some groups to advocate for them.

Moreover, there isn't a legal right or requirement for any culture to give their seal of approval before it is represented in media. A country can ban media it finds problematic. A cultural community can choose not to support a product and speak out against representation it doesn't agree with. But no cultural group can require that it be immune to critique or interpretation on a global scale, or require that they have to have a say in how they are represented in all products, or are entitled to money for any product even vaguely featuring an aspect of the culture.

Oh I do agree there, I feel that money is the ultimate goal here given how they are presenting the issue and I doubt much will come from this either way. Still those from Sami culture have every right to comment on such aspects, even if this specific councils goal may not be as noble as they present it. As I said I do not think there is anything particularly grievous about this situation, but even now many fictional worlds will still use cultural aspects in misguided or even outright racist ways. Just look at how the treatment of goblins is being delt with in another magical world…

My comment was more aimed at the fact that aveyond always seems to lack any empathy for those they may disagree with, no matter the topic. I feel that is just a sad way to approach things, especially when it comes to real life issues like this. Not everything deserves a forked tongue.

[boopadoop]

lotta drama over new world glamour when it came out too, it'll be fine uvu

[Ath192]

Quite honestly, if trademarking or copyrighting looks becomes a thing in the world now we are doomed. I agree this sort of thing must be resisted at all costs and not only that but punished with counter lawsuits if possible to create deterrence on anyone that may do the same.

I know it sounds harsh but catering to people who become easily offended is a surefire way to create oppression. Every single outfit ever draws inspiration from things that came before it.

It's a Japanese game that uses a lot of western outfits, should the westerners be offended? Some outfits are heavily inspired by conquistadors, native americans, pirates, middle eastern folk should they all be offended? Should the game developers in turn delete every style from the game except basic t shirts and jeans until someone becomes offended over that as well? Then we can run around naked?

I will say no. Not at all. no matter who you are, what you are wearing, and this goes for every single person on this forum and the planet, someone will find you offensive. Even if you are the biggest social justice warrior out there. I hope SE resists this. This outfit has gone to top of my purchase list when I decide to get a new mog station item.

[hagare]

This outfit has gone to top of my purchase list when I decide to get a new mog station item.

it's good to know how easily manipulated you are xD

[Ath192]

it's good to know how easily manipulated you are xD

I mean, given it was on my purchase list anyways, and it just moved to the first one I'm getting I'm okay if this is your take. Everyone chooses what to be manipulated by in this world. You're in this forum cause you bought into SE's vision on how you should waste your time on their video games. And here we both are aren't we?

But maybe you'll quit to be rebellious and go to hot topic to look super edgy and be part of the counterculture right? But no, you don't get swayed like that, you instead buy basic clothing like fruit of the loom or nondescript brands who market exactly to the kind of folk that don't want to advertise or show a preference in brands. They knew this, that's why you are their target audience.

[Iscah]

Ultimately I think this whole thing could and should have been avoided by not putting an exact copy of Sami cultural dress in the game, especially devoid of context and being sold for real money.

Did anyone specifically want to dress up as a Sami, or did they just see it as a cute winter outfit? If just a cute outfit, why did it need to be that precise copy of a cultural outfit instead of something amalgamated from the style of dress worn in cold climates across multiple cultures? What benefit is there to making it that exact design and colour scheme, where anything else would be just as well received?