Need advice: static imploding because of cheater.

[Bobby66]

If I knew for a fact someone was cheating whether it affects me or not and did nothing about it then I'm complicit in their actions and indirectly support their choices which does bother me as I have no desire to be apart of that. That is my choice as much as it is theirs to cheat.

As I said don't associate or acknowledge them. Leave the group do your own thing, but this witch hunting mindset we have around it is petty at best, malicious at worse. Live and let live, no need to have the community go out hunting for people, or treating cheaters like they are vile sub humans. Not saying everyone feels that way, but really that is the energy many give off.

[EstelleCere]

I haven't really bothered to read through this whole thread but I think I can agree with what others are saying, that OP should've talked to the member before kicking them, and talking to their other members in the static before doing anything, at least that's what I would've done. Could leave the static if everyone was agreeing with the other person, just so that it wouldn't be ruining the progress for other members.

[Bobby66]

You would only do it then because you know you wouldn't be caught. If there was a chance you could be caught, you wouldn't do it. Just knowing they can give you a ticket.

It's the same with mods. People know they are "illegal", so they hide them. Don't need to hide something if it's okay.

Isn't that the nature of selectively enforced rules? It less about the chance and more so the probability. It is a risk assessment, the cost has to outweigh the gain on a majority bases for some to feel the risk is not worth it. Say someone offers you a job that is illegal and has a 25% of you getting caught, but the payout was 1 billion in cash, and even if you are caught roughly only 15% of the cases even lead to a convection, and even if you are convicted at most you are facing 2 years in a prison on average and at worse you are looking at 15 years and at best you are looking house arrest and probation. This was a question our business ethics professor liked to ask, using it as a means to show why fraud is so massive in finance cost the cost of punishment rarely outweighs the gain for most people.

He would honestly argue most if they really thought about it logically would take the risk in this case. This is largely what happens in most video games when it comes to cheating more often then not the punishment does out weigh the benefit. As my professor said it is about working smarter not harder, give up at worse 15 years to make one billion in cash or be honest and grind out day in and day out and be lucky if you make enough to retire at with a couple of million when you are way past your prime.

Point he was trying to make hate the game not the player. Often times the benefits for cheating, breaking the law, when done right often provide a net positive that largely enhance the experience or life of the person that did the wrong doing in the long run. As he said does it make it right? No, but most certainly we would all be fools to pretend we do not understand the logic behind it, and in the case of the my professors example many of us probably wish we had to the balls to go that far.

Cheating is an issue cause it is a hard issue to enforce, it has to be selective by nature of how it is detected. SE created this monster, and they know deep down they know they have no good answer. So they will still use the same talking points but largely ignore it. We can get salty but for the most part the average player that cheats and streams most likely will not even get a warning.

[CrimsonThunder]

As I said don't associate or acknowledge them. Leave the group do your own thing, but this witch hunting mindset we have around it is petty at best, malicious at worse. Live and let live, no need to have the community go out hunting for people, or treating cheaters like they are vile sub humans. Not saying everyone feels that way, but really that is the energy many give off.

I don't wish for cheaters to burn at the stake, only to face the consequences of their choice. Now if I had undeniable proof that someone was cheating, reported them and they faced punishment would that not suggest the devs support this much at least?

I have no interest in witch hunting but I also have no desire to watch the playerbase shoots themselves in the foot because they lack self-control and any personal dignity when it concerns skill. If there are consequences later for the choices of these players then what right would I have to complain if I knew and sat there but chose to do or say nothing?

Live and let live....until you pay the price.

[CrimsonThunder]

That's not what I said, I just said it doesnt impact me personally if someone uses it because I wouldnt even know it

But what if they did decide to remove Ultimate or something similar because of it? You can blame the devs if you want but it was simply a reaction to what the players were doing when they had the choice not to. At that point it would affect you and you chose to do nothing.

[CrimsonThunder]

Isn't that the nature of selectively enforced rules? It less about the chance and more so the probability. It is a risk assessment, the cost has to outweigh the gain on a majority bases for some to feel the risk is not worth it. Say someone offers you a job that is illegal and has a 25% of you getting caught, but the payout was 1 billion in cash, and even if you are caught roughly only 15% of the cases even lead to a convection, and even if you are convicted at most you are facing 2 years in a prison on average and at worse you are looking at 15 years and at best you are looking house arrest and probation. This was a question our business ethics professor liked to ask, using it as a means to show why fraud is so massive in finance cost the cost of punishment rarely outweighs the gain for most people.

He would honestly argue most if they really thought about it logically would take the risk in this case. This is largely what happens in most video games when it comes to cheating more often then not the punishment does out weigh the benefit. As my professor said it is about working smarter not harder, give up at worse 15 years to make one billion in cash or be honest and grind out day in and day out and be lucky if you make enough to retire at with a couple of million when you are way past your prime.

Point he was trying to make hate the game not the player. Often times the benefits for cheating, breaking the law, when done right often provide a net positive that largely enhance the experience or life of the person that did the wrong doing in the long run. As he said does it make it right? No, but most certainly we would all be fools to pretend we do not understand the logic behind it, and in the case of the my professors example many of us probably wish we had to the balls to go that far.

Cheating is an issue cause it is a hard issue to enforce, it has to be selective by nature of how it is detected. SE created this monster, and they know deep down they know they have no good answer. So they will still use the same talking points but largely ignore it. We can get salty but for the most part the average player that cheats and streams most likely will not even get a warning.

You're not wrong that in the end we live in a dog eat world but choosing to be honest is a personal principle that has meaning to those who do it, no matter what form it takes. That's not naive, it's just trying to be better than the system we live in.

[Saraide]

But what if they did decide to remove Ultimate or something similar because of it? You can blame the devs if you want but it was simply a reaction to what the players were doing when they had the choice not to. At that point it would affect you and you chose to do nothing.

That would be not smart. SE isnt doing ultimates out of the kindness of their hearts. They know it's content that drives eyes to the game through the world first races and they know ulti raiders will consistently stay subbed through savage and the following ulti patch.

[ZephyrMenodora]

As a little side note here, thanks to third party tools you can also tell if the person bought their prestigious weapons and such with carries.

That's pretty neat, IMO.

[Zebraoracle]

But what if they did decide to remove Ultimate or something similar because of it? You can blame the devs if you want but it was simply a reaction to what the players were doing when they had the choice not to. At that point it would affect you and you chose to do nothing.

Well the implication of what Storm is saying is if they don't make it known, Square has zero way of knowing about it thus there will be no negative consequences like no more ultimates. That's the whole crux of this - don't ask don't tell and literally no one has any way of knowing who's running mods.

[Canadane]

"Legitimately" according to who?

Yoshi-P, primarily.