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  1. #521
    Player
    Imora's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Posts
    1,233
    Character
    Imora Dal'syn
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    This went from "cheating is bad" to "my definition of cheating" to "you don't have current savage mount therefore your opinion is invalid" pretty quick.

    I don't like raiding in this game.

    I raided in Wow, EQ2, ESO and a few others. I've been raiding in MMOs for 20+ years.

    I have more raid experience across games than most of you.

    Does this make my opinion on cheating more valid than others? No.

    If it directly affects the game, as in, hooks into the game somehow and alters or analyzes something, it's technically cheating and violates ToS. This is Square's definition, not mine.

    Sheesh.
    (6)

  2. #522
    Player
    CrimsonThunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    312
    Character
    Crimson Silver
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    "raid with integrity," says the guy who doesn't raid.
    I agree with him, says the guy who has raided since Creator if you want to play the strawman.
    (2)

  3. #523
    Player
    Saraide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    3,042
    Character
    Saraide Derosa
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Imora View Post
    This went from "cheating is bad" to "my definition of cheating" to "you don't have current savage mount therefore your opinion is invalid" pretty quick.

    I don't like raiding in this game.

    I raided in Wow, EQ2, ESO and a few others. I've been raiding in MMOs for 20+ years.

    I have more raid experience across games than most of you.

    Does this make my opinion on cheating more valid than others? No.

    If it directly affects the game, as in, hooks into the game somehow and alters or analyzes something, it's technically cheating and violates ToS. This is Square's definition, not mine.

    Sheesh.
    This is a 50+ page thread, nothing in here went quick.
    (4)

  4. #524
    Player
    Zebraoracle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Posts
    832
    Character
    Zebra Rune
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    On the one hand, a person can have an opinion on something even if they don't currently participate in it, they are entitled to that opinion even if it might in some cases not be as educated as you'd like.

    On the other hand, caring about the "prestige" is kinda yikes, if you're raiding for the ego boost of being in some super elite club then I think you have bigger issues than what someone else is keeping to themselves. The majority of people are not going to care that you're afking in Limsa with your glowy weapon unscathed.

    Also you can wish people would stop using mods or cheat mods all you want, that's fine I'd also like there to be no cheaters, but at the end of the day if they are keeping it to themselves and not causing Square to enact punishments on us through their design, I really don't care because it's not hurting us and I'm still doing content on my own merit.

    However you become pure cringe the moment you start wishing bans on these people because you're going on a witch hunting crusade, against YoshiP's own wishes.
    (1)
    Last edited by Zebraoracle; 02-20-2023 at 05:07 AM.

  5. #525
    Player
    ZephyrMenodora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,290
    Character
    Zephyr Menodora
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebraoracle View Post

    On the other hand, caring about the "prestige" is kinda yikes, if you're raiding for the ego boost of being in some super elite club then I think you have bigger issues than what someone else is keeping to themselves. The majority of people are not going to care that you're afking in Limsa with your glowy weapon unscathed.
    I mean, people standing around afk showing off their in-game earned gear has been a thing in MMOs forever. Especially raiders that typically have very unique items compared to the majority of the playerbase. It's just one of the rewards for tackling difficult content.

    I've seen people do it here with their weapon skins and rare mounts.

    Not everyone has to care about this, but a lot of long-time raiders probably had a moment where they were proud of something unique they earned due to overcoming challenge. It's a small symbol of pride in the context of your hobby. Don't try to make people sound like they have "bigger issues" than simply taking pride in something they accomplished.

    EDIT: Hit my post limit for today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebraoracle View Post
    That's not what I said at all, but okay. And yes, I'm fully aware of the history, and it's the same now as it used to be, hardly anyone else cares about you outside of a two second "neat okay moving on". You brought up the prestige of it, being proud of an accomplishment isn't the same thing as caring about the prestige.
    The unique gear / mount only accessible to successful raiders is the representation of the accomplishment. To some people, that carries prestige in the context of their hobby. I don't see how this rises to "yikes" and "bigger issues." It's fine you place little value on these things, but that's not the case for everyone. It can just be a small token that they get to show off in game. I'm not the one with a melodramatic reaction - I'm sure you just dislike me as a poster which I'm completely fine with.
    (4)
    Last edited by ZephyrMenodora; 02-20-2023 at 05:28 AM.

  6. #526
    Player
    Zebraoracle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Posts
    832
    Character
    Zebra Rune
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora View Post
    I mean, people standing around afk showing off their in-game earned gear has been a thing in MMOs forever. Especially raiders that typically have very unique items compared to the majority of the playerbase. It's just one of the rewards for tackling difficult content.

    I've seen people do it here with their weapon skins and rare mounts.

    Not everyone has to care about this, but a lot of long-time raiders probably had a moment where they were proud of something unique they earned due to overcoming challenge. It's a small symbol of pride in the context of your hobby. Don't try to make people sound like they have "bigger issues" than simply taking pride in something they accomplished.
    That's not what I said at all, but okay. And yes, I'm fully aware of the history, and it's the same now as it used to be, hardly anyone else cares about you outside of a two second "neat okay moving on". You brought up the prestige of it, being proud of an accomplishment isn't the same thing as caring about the prestige.
    (0)

  7. #527
    Player Stormpeaks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    2,668
    Character
    Maya Jcb
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Imora View Post
    This went from "cheating is bad" to "my definition of cheating" to "you don't have current savage mount therefore your opinion is invalid" pretty quick.

    I don't like raiding in this game.

    I raided in Wow, EQ2, ESO and a few others. I've been raiding in MMOs for 20+ years.

    I have more raid experience across games than most of you.

    Does this make my opinion on cheating more valid than others? No.

    If it directly affects the game, as in, hooks into the game somehow and alters or analyzes something, it's technically cheating and violates ToS. This is Square's definition, not mine.

    Sheesh.
    And a very small vocal minority cares that it's "cheating and violates TOS", because it has no impact on others. A lot of people use third party tools and no one would even know except if they stream it live on twitch.
    (3)

  8. #528
    Player Kolaina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,070
    Character
    Hazy Dreams
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormpeaks View Post
    And a very small vocal minority cares that it's "cheating and violates TOS", because it has no impact on others. A lot of people use third party tools and no one would even know except if they stream it live on twitch.
    But fact remains, it is cheating and in violation of the ToS. Doesn’t matter who does or doesn’t care. It is in fact cheating and in violation
    (7)

  9. #529
    Player Stormpeaks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    2,668
    Character
    Maya Jcb
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolaina View Post
    But fact remains, it is cheating and in violation of the ToS. Doesn’t matter who does or doesn’t care. It is in fact cheating and in violation
    Yes, and so is crossing a red light for pedestrians even if it's 3 AM and there's no cars around, so ? Do you see cops going all over the place arresting or giving citations to people crossing red pedestrian lights when there's no cars around ? No. Except overzealous cops.

    Is it agaisnt TOS ? Yes, does anyone care aside from a small minority ? No.
    (4)
    Last edited by Stormpeaks; 02-20-2023 at 05:54 AM.

  10. #530
    Player
    Zebraoracle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Posts
    832
    Character
    Zebra Rune
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolaina View Post
    But fact remains, it is cheating and in violation of the ToS. Doesn’t matter who does or doesn’t care. It is in fact cheating and in violation
    I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this lol. Everyone knows mods are against TOS and certain mods are basically cheats.

    The disconnect here seems to be one side, or at least a hyper-zealous minority that needs to be reigned in so they stop making their side look bad, is witch hunting and attacking people that even slightly disagree with them and is arguably over concerned with what other people are doing.

    The other side, who for the most part is of the stance "if it doesn't cause Square to punish us y'all need to calm down a bit", has certain people that are extremely caustic (and who thankfully haven't appeared in this thread yet) who make THEIR side look bad. And bringing up someone's mount collection ain't it bro.

    Both sides need to reign themselves in, this has been a multi-thread topic and honestly all it ends up being is a bunch of stupid bickering.
    (2)

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