Need advice: static imploding because of cheater.

[Pixieh]

What makes them not against TOS?

Like I said before; I don't educate the willfully ignorant.

[Midareyukki]

They're not against the TOS though unlike the cheats that are being discussed here. So what's your point?

The point is that there is a difference between calling certain tools "against the ToS" and "cheats". And as far as I've seen, the distinction really loves to shift between people, even within this thread.

Or, you know maybe read the actual whole post rather than just cutting out the part that irked you to understand the point.

Plenty of people have already stated that they consider those tools to be cheats. Others don't, like you. Even, again, in this thread. And even actual cheats like zoomhacks and stuff that lets you faze through walls or speedhacks have people going like "Oh they're not cheats!".

The ultimate point is that it doesn't matter what anyone's definition is. What matters is what SE considers cheating or not.

Like I said before; I don't educate the willfully ignorant.

Considering you missed the point of my post despite it being cleared in the paragraphs you skipped, and failed to read the rest of the conversation leading to it, I'd consider you an ignorant party as well. Please drop the attitude.

[Saraide]

Like I said before; I don't educate the willfully ignorant.

Just feelycraft then, that's what I expected.

[Pixieh]

What matters is what SE considers cheating or not.

Exactly. Not sure where you got the impression that anyone has been arguing against that. If you use a third party programm that hooks into the game, changes the actual game (whether its shading or zooming or what not) then its against the TOS. The points you made that I quoted do not do that. Ergo, they're not cheating.

[Pixieh]

Just feelycraft then, that's what I expected.

Urgh fine. Just for you.

IF those sites would be against the TOS you could bet your lovely behind that SE would have gone after them and forced them to shut down (and yes, they can very much do that since sites like teamcraft use their assets and copyrights to work with.)
They don't do that.

Now count two and two together. Voila!

[Midareyukki]

Exactly. Not sure where you got the impression that anyone has been arguing against that. If you use a third party programm that hooks into the game, changes the actual game (whether its shading or zooming or what not) then its against the TOS. The points you made that I quoted do not do that. Ergo, they're not cheating.

Imora and Bobby66's interactions.

For example, Imora's post.

I can't believe there's actually people here defending cheating.

I'd have taken it up with them first, possibly, their reaction would have been the motivator for the kick(being an entitled douche, for example), but I see nothing wrong with removing them. Your static, your rules. And if people leave because they condone cheating, then so be it.

I'm guessing everyone here defending that guy heavily mods their game like its Skyrim.

Some people look at mods and go "this isn't cheating, it's just cosmetic". And who knows, they may be right, there is no inherent advantage or disadvantage to make people clear content with it.

But will SE see it that way? Good luck arguing against the GMs at Mordion Gaol :B

That's what I meant. Even in this thread, some people consider X to be a cheat, others don't. Some people consider certain tools and websites against the VERY LOOSE ToS we agreed to, others don't.

But at the end of the day, Square's the one who defines what they look out for and what they don't. And as I said:

Unless you're either harassing people with these things, being blatant about their use and visibly associating your character's name with it, or specifically trying to get an upper hand in content by skipping mechanics or removing challenge via hacks, they won't see it as cheating. Violating the ToS, probably? But cheating? Not necessarily.

That's what Square has visibly shown to target.
Everything else? Likely peanuts to them, they won't care to move.

[Saraide]

Urgh fine. Just for you.

IF those sites would be against the TOS you could bet your lovely behind that SE would have gone after them and forced them to shut down (and yes, they can very much do that since sites like teamcraft use their assets and copyrights to work with.)
They don't do that.

Now count two and two together. Voila!

Their enforcement doesnt change what is written in the TOS. FFLogs is also alive and well. Discord is not a website but actual software that impacts how you play. I'm glad you agree though that strictly what is written in the TOS is not the final word on the matter and we need a more nuanced approach. Instead of going by strictly the word of the law, we should be going by the spirit of the law and that requires interpretation and critical thinking.

[Midareyukki]

xD this isn't the Z thread, roni

[ronibosch]

xD this isn't the Z thread, roni

Shh, Middy! I was trying to cover up my mistake! xD

[Kansene]

Teamcraft is a third party tool.
14Angler is a third party tool.
XIVGlamour is a third party tool.
Gamerescape is a third party tool.
The FF14 Wiki is a third party tool.
So's anything posted by the Balance Discord.
Heck, using Discord is technically considered one too.
Youtube guides for raids are a third party tool.
Shaders are a third party tool.
Parsers are third party tools.

Just to clarify though:
Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

This is what the literal terms of service say on the matter. Some of the things listed fall under that category, some do not.
Someone reading about strats on a site or watching a youtube vid isn't against the ToS at all.
If they've said otherwise elsewhere, they've still not added it to the ToS and as such it isn't binding.