Need advice: static imploding because of cheater.

[ZephyrMenodora]

For me the heart of why this bothers me is because I was a hardcore raider in the past, not in XIV but in EQ2 where you needed to coordinate 24 people, not 8, which already was a challenge before the raid even began. I dedicated 30 hours a week to the raid team (something I won't do anymore and is one of the reasons I don't raid anymore - it's addicting to me and not something I want to be tempted by due to other responsibilities now). We went for world or server firsts. So when I had "Cleric Mace of Shiny Shininess" - it had prestige and meant something.

That's how I used to view raid mounts and gear here - when I see them I'd think, "oh that person cleared the most challenging content. That's cool!" Seeing how commonplace "cheats" are just makes me question how cool that is in XIV compared to my past experiences.

In the grand scheme of life, does this matter all that much? No. As an MMO hobbiest and someone who was heavily into raiding, and enjoyed the aspect of "oh cool look at that thing you have!" as recognition that I put the time and effort into earning it, I do stlil care on that level.

I think if you can't clear content as designed, you aren't entitled to top-end gear and mounts. Maybe to most here how I think is strange and no one views clearing current-tier raids as having any prestige. And, as a former really hard-core raider, it's a little sad to me.

As an aside, I'm not 100% anti-mod of any form. I think parsers are useful tools to help people improve. Our raid team used parsers to help point out who needed to improve in as a supportive manner as possible. It helped people perfect rotations and uptime and they improved as a player. It's a tool I wish was supported here for the educational value it brings. But I think tools that change how the encounter is viewed, or in ESO a mod that actually said "MECHANIC INC! DODGE NOW!" cheapened the encounters to me.

[Imora]

This went from "cheating is bad" to "my definition of cheating" to "you don't have current savage mount therefore your opinion is invalid" pretty quick.

I don't like raiding in this game.

I raided in Wow, EQ2, ESO and a few others. I've been raiding in MMOs for 20+ years.

I have more raid experience across games than most of you.

Does this make my opinion on cheating more valid than others? No.

If it directly affects the game, as in, hooks into the game somehow and alters or analyzes something, it's technically cheating and violates ToS. This is Square's definition, not mine.

Sheesh.

[Saraide]

This went from "cheating is bad" to "my definition of cheating" to "you don't have current savage mount therefore your opinion is invalid" pretty quick.

I don't like raiding in this game.

I raided in Wow, EQ2, ESO and a few others. I've been raiding in MMOs for 20+ years.

I have more raid experience across games than most of you.

Does this make my opinion on cheating more valid than others? No.

If it directly affects the game, as in, hooks into the game somehow and alters or analyzes something, it's technically cheating and violates ToS. This is Square's definition, not mine.

Sheesh.

This is a 50+ page thread, nothing in here went quick.

[Stormpeaks]

This went from "cheating is bad" to "my definition of cheating" to "you don't have current savage mount therefore your opinion is invalid" pretty quick.

I don't like raiding in this game.

I raided in Wow, EQ2, ESO and a few others. I've been raiding in MMOs for 20+ years.

I have more raid experience across games than most of you.

Does this make my opinion on cheating more valid than others? No.

If it directly affects the game, as in, hooks into the game somehow and alters or analyzes something, it's technically cheating and violates ToS. This is Square's definition, not mine.

Sheesh.

And a very small vocal minority cares that it's "cheating and violates TOS", because it has no impact on others. A lot of people use third party tools and no one would even know except if they stream it live on twitch.

[Zebraoracle]

On the one hand, a person can have an opinion on something even if they don't currently participate in it, they are entitled to that opinion even if it might in some cases not be as educated as you'd like.

On the other hand, caring about the "prestige" is kinda yikes, if you're raiding for the ego boost of being in some super elite club then I think you have bigger issues than what someone else is keeping to themselves. The majority of people are not going to care that you're afking in Limsa with your glowy weapon unscathed.

Also you can wish people would stop using mods or cheat mods all you want, that's fine I'd also like there to be no cheaters, but at the end of the day if they are keeping it to themselves and not causing Square to enact punishments on us through their design, I really don't care because it's not hurting us and I'm still doing content on my own merit.

However you become pure cringe the moment you start wishing bans on these people because you're going on a witch hunting crusade, against YoshiP's own wishes.

[ZephyrMenodora]

On the other hand, caring about the "prestige" is kinda yikes, if you're raiding for the ego boost of being in some super elite club then I think you have bigger issues than what someone else is keeping to themselves. The majority of people are not going to care that you're afking in Limsa with your glowy weapon unscathed.

I mean, people standing around afk showing off their in-game earned gear has been a thing in MMOs forever. Especially raiders that typically have very unique items compared to the majority of the playerbase. It's just one of the rewards for tackling difficult content.

I've seen people do it here with their weapon skins and rare mounts.

Not everyone has to care about this, but a lot of long-time raiders probably had a moment where they were proud of something unique they earned due to overcoming challenge. It's a small symbol of pride in the context of your hobby. Don't try to make people sound like they have "bigger issues" than simply taking pride in something they accomplished.

EDIT: Hit my post limit for today.

That's not what I said at all, but okay. And yes, I'm fully aware of the history, and it's the same now as it used to be, hardly anyone else cares about you outside of a two second "neat okay moving on". You brought up the prestige of it, being proud of an accomplishment isn't the same thing as caring about the prestige.

The unique gear / mount only accessible to successful raiders is the representation of the accomplishment. To some people, that carries prestige in the context of their hobby. I don't see how this rises to "yikes" and "bigger issues." It's fine you place little value on these things, but that's not the case for everyone. It can just be a small token that they get to show off in game. I'm not the one with a melodramatic reaction - I'm sure you just dislike me as a poster which I'm completely fine with.

[Zebraoracle]

I mean, people standing around afk showing off their in-game earned gear has been a thing in MMOs forever. Especially raiders that typically have very unique items compared to the majority of the playerbase. It's just one of the rewards for tackling difficult content.

I've seen people do it here with their weapon skins and rare mounts.

Not everyone has to care about this, but a lot of long-time raiders probably had a moment where they were proud of something unique they earned due to overcoming challenge. It's a small symbol of pride in the context of your hobby. Don't try to make people sound like they have "bigger issues" than simply taking pride in something they accomplished.

That's not what I said at all, but okay. And yes, I'm fully aware of the history, and it's the same now as it used to be, hardly anyone else cares about you outside of a two second "neat okay moving on". You brought up the prestige of it, being proud of an accomplishment isn't the same thing as caring about the prestige.

[Rolder50]

I mean, people standing around afk showing off their in-game earned gear has been a thing in MMOs forever. Especially raiders that typically have very unique items compared to the majority of the playerbase. It's just one of the rewards for tackling difficult content.

As a little side note here, thanks to third party tools you can also tell if the person bought their prestigious weapons and such with carries.

[ZephyrMenodora]

As a little side note here, thanks to third party tools you can also tell if the person bought their prestigious weapons and such with carries.

That's pretty neat, IMO.

[Zebraoracle]

I mean, people standing around afk showing off their in-game earned gear has been a thing in MMOs forever. Especially raiders that typically have very unique items compared to the majority of the playerbase. It's just one of the rewards for tackling difficult content.

I've seen people do it here with their weapon skins and rare mounts.

Not everyone has to care about this, but a lot of long-time raiders probably had a moment where they were proud of something unique they earned due to overcoming challenge. It's a small symbol of pride in the context of your hobby. Don't try to make people sound like they have "bigger issues" than simply taking pride in something they accomplished.

EDIT: Hit my post limit for today.



The unique gear / mount only accessible to successful raiders is the representation of the accomplishment. To some people, that carries prestige in the context of their hobby. I don't see how this rises to "yikes" and "bigger issues." It's fine you place little value on these things, but that's not the case for everyone. It can just be a small token that they get to show off in game. I'm not the one with a melodramatic reaction - I'm sure you just dislike me as a poster which I'm completely fine with.

Just saw this. For one, who are you that I should waste my time disliking you? I don't mean that in a disparaging way, I literally just can't be bothered to care about holding grudges against someone I disagree with on the forums of an MMO. People disagree with each other, big whoop, unlike some people (especially in this thread...) I don't take that as a personal attack, so just because we disagree doesn't mean I dislike you. There's always another human on the other side of the screen, something a lot of people forget.

Second, you're misrepresenting my words again. I care about my own achievements because I only do stuff in this game that I find enjoyable. I care about my friends' achievements because they are my friends and I'm interested in what they've got going on. I don't give two craps about Joe Shmoe afking in Limsa with a glowy weapon in his hands, and judging by everyone running past him, neither do most people. In fact, I've seen more memes and mockery of these people than admiration (anecdotal evidence, so take it as you will). That's what I think of every time someone comes into these threads complaining about the "prestige" of raiding (you are not the first), and every time those people show it's just about ego for them, which to me is baffling and yes does make it seem like those people have issues. Like why is it so important for you (you in general not specifically) to be able to show off to strangers that don't know or care about you? Hell, maybe I'm just jaded from so many of these stupid discussions that just go round and round in circles lol