A couple of GNB changes

[Santisimo]

20 seconds is fine for both, otherwise you're just going to keep moving the goalpost everytime, you're going to always miss something, and people will be like "if only I had 2 more seconds", it'll never stop. Not every job is able to fit everything into their burst window, and that's actually fine, as long as you get your double down, Gnashing combo, sonic break bow shock and then whatever Busrt Strikes you can then you're fine for most pulls, missing the last burst strike under NM isn't gonna cist you a dps check, if it is I'd be more concerned with your party.

It's even less of a worry on Paladin, just need to comfortably fit Goring, Confiteor, Blades of Faith / Truth / Valor and 1 DM buffed HS, then last 2 GCDs are free.

"Not every job" stopped being a valid argument when patch 5.0 dropped and standardization/homogenization became the core design principle for this game, especially among the Tanks. And while I'm mentioning Shadowbringers, Gunbreaker was able to fit, and does still fit everything fine at Lvl 80 before they decided to give us another cartridge and a double spender. While it's certainly not problematic from a performance perspective and isn't likely to be what cost us the dps check, there's a certain smoothness in the flow of the rotation and burst w/ Lvl 80 Gunbreaker where everything lined up and fit in where it was supposed to perfectly.

It's an issue of feeling clunky to play, not a performance issue. Monk has historically been one of the best performing jobs despite in each expansion being one of the clunkiest alongside SMN prior to its rework, and that was merit having both jobs changed entirely despite their performance. To argue that I should settle for clunk due to what was an ill-conceived addition to the Job isn't a strong argument to stand on. If the goal post moves in the future, that's because moving it is the reasonable thing to do.

Goalposts have to move as the design principles and philosophy of the game changes, not to mention the game itself. Moving the goalpost is not a conceptual error.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Rant

I mean when I can tell the differences between each tank, sure they all share some degree of similarity, but they all play plenty differently. Usually it's the people that want something to complain about looking for any morsel they can get their hands on. But then by your logic every tank should be dealing the exact about of damage give or take crit DH variance,but that's not happening at present, huh? funny that.

Honestly I don't mind playing GNB at lvl 90 as it currently is, it's not nearly as bad and clunky as some people make it out to be. Hell 2.50 GCD build this tier isn't that bad either, to the point you're only getting 8 GCDs anyways under NM.

There is no reason for FoF or NM to last longer than 20 seconds since raid buffs duration cap out at 20 seconds. So I dunno it's not really gaining much at all, the difference will be made up by crit DH variance tbh.

I genuinely can't see a justified or valid argument that the NM cooldown need increasing, because there is always gonna be someone unhappy about something, but when GNB is already doing great damage and has a really strong defensive kit, I really do not think the job needs any kind of adjustment right now.

More so I can't see how increasing NM is even going to fix that one scenario once in a while where you get that overcap or delay your burst a GCD since you're still waiting for NM to come off CD lol.

[LoadedVirus]

I'd be up for making Bloodfest 60 sec cooldown ... yeah might have to nerf something else but it would make the job more fun to play.

[Absurdity]

Oh god no, I do not need even more forced weaves during NM.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Some random ideas I think might be cool in 7.0:

-Aoe Continuation for fated circle. I don’t think anyone would be surprised by this. It would be good leveling filler and would make using bloodfest during trash pulls more fun. It’s a no brainer and is cohesive with the job design

-Make bow shock a GCD and share a cooldown with sonic break. I don’t particularly care for having to track this cooldown during single target, so this could free up a little busy-ness from the job that could be replaced with something else and generally future proof a little. You could even give it an animation upgrade during 7.0 leveling

-New special mitigation. A complaint people have is that using mit during continuation is cumbersome. This cooldown would be something you press and then you get a buff that lasts like 15-25 ish seconds. Upon using gnashing fang this buff turns into a 15-20% mitigation that lasts during your continuation combo. It would last around 7-8 seconds or end after eye gouge. It also ends if you break the GF combo with another GCD. This would reward fight knowledge and let you prepare a mit ahead of time when you know you’ll need one during GF. If needed it could share a cooldown with another mit skill, maybe even HOC so you could pop both rampart/this new button before a burst with TB during it rather than having to weave HOC during the GF combo. Probably like a two minute cooldown.

New 1-cart spender. This one is more theory-craft-ey. Basically a new GCD costing 1 cartridge. However this can only be executed during No Mercy, which now grants the buff “(New Skill) Ready”. This is meant as a finisher to your NM window to replace your last burst strike. The potency of this move is increased in stacks based on using any of the following moves during NM: double down, gnashing fang, savage claw, wicked talon, burst strike, and fated circle. You can get a maximum of 6 stacks for max potency when you use the move, kinda similar to plentiful harvest on RPR. The max six stacks will only be possible during even burst with bloodfest up where you get all six with DD, gnashing combo, and two burst strikes before you spend your final cart on this move. During odd minutes you will only get 4 stacks max from DD and gnashing combo, and you would replace your remaining extra burst strike with this move. This could make those 120s bloodfest bursts more exiciting. And it would have AOE fall off for trash too.

[ForsakenRoe]

Some random ideas I think might be cool in 7.0:

-Aoe Continuation for fated circle. I don’t think anyone would be surprised by this. It would be good leveling filler and would make using bloodfest during trash pulls more fun. It’s a no brainer and is cohesive with the job design

If I were designing the class, I'd have made Fated the Continuation off of either Demon Slice or Demon Slaughter. I'd also change Bloodfest to be called 'Draw and Junction', current Double Down to 'Bloodfest' (as a reference to the LB of the same name from FF8), and make Hypervelocity a Continuation off of this new 'Bloodfest' instead of Burst Strike, so that Burst Strike goes back to having no Continuation after it, allowing for more mobility during NM windows again (potencies adjusted as needed)

[Nihility]

It may sound kind of petty but for some reason I kind of don't like how bow shock and sonic break are both used together.
Up the potency, make them share a cast time, and make them both either skill or ability(preferred) and I'd be a pretty happy gunbreaker.

honestly believe it's the tank in the overall best place right now

[CKNovel]

It may sound kind of petty but for some reason I kind of don't like how bow shock and sonic break are both used together.
Up the potency, make them share a cast time, and make them both either skill or ability(preferred) and I'd be a pretty happy gunbreaker.

honestly believe it's the tank in the overall best place right now

I don't disagree with the idea, you would indeed need to make both of them a GCD or a oGCD.
I would favor the GCD option and make both dots 15 seconds (adjusting potency accordingly).
Gunbreaker doesn't have a lot of cooldown shared between ST/AoE, so I don't think it's a problem.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bow Shock or Sonic Break just disappears or get reworked in 7.0, those are dots to press and forgot.
The only upside about Sonic Break is that the dot makes it 900 potency (300 + 60*10) diluted over time, which helps with damage variance I believe.

I also believe GNB is in a very good spot but just suffers against repeated downtime. Maybe something like cartridges meditation to build gauge during downtime?

[baklava151]

I don't know how likely it would be if they did this in 7.0 but I wish they'd revert the number of max cartridges GNB can hold back down to 2 and make DD cost only 1, along with whatever potency adjustments that needs. Needing three cartridges going into your one-minute gives you very little leeway on missing GCDs, which to be fair it's pretty hard to lose uptime in EW but it still happens on occasion.

[Absurdity]

I don't know how likely it would be if they did this in 7.0 but I wish they'd revert the number of max cartridges GNB can hold back down to 2 and make DD cost only 1, along with whatever potency adjustments that needs. Needing three cartridges going into your one-minute gives you very little leeway on missing GCDs, which to be fair it's pretty hard to lose uptime in EW but it still happens on occasion.

I honestly don't care about missing GCDs, when it happens it is either my fault in which case I just need to "git gud" or it is mechanics-related downtime in which case I simply adjust my rotation.

What the EW changes did however is take a perfectly fine gameplay loop and introduce clunk into it. Double down didn't add some needed gameplay variety, it's just another "press this big damage button during burst", it's basically just replacing a Burst Strike from Shadowbringers with a "bigger" Burst Strike. And then there's Hypervelocity, an addition that did nothing but make your No Mercy windows awkward, boss repositioning a pain and weaving defensives an annoyance.