Simple changes that would tremendously help PvP

[True-to-Caesar]

I’ve been playing a ton of CC and been farming Onsal Hakair (Steppes Frontline) for a mount.

It surprises me that after the first efforts to improve PvP participation, few real hotfixes were made. Here’s a few things that should be tweaked based on my experience :

- NO oneshot gimmicks. It’s bad in any game with PvP, kills counter-play and feels cheap. This isn’t PvE (and you don’t even have that in PvE, so I’m wondering where the idea came from).

- Samurai block + oneshot LB is extremely lame as many threads already explained. Make the block have instead a riposte effect, where the attackers get their damage reflected. Longer cooldown, like 1 min. Less cheap and still useful.

- MCH saw ability should not have a oneshot chance.

- Probably a few other oneshot abilities/gimmicks I’ve missed. You guys tell me. They should not exist at any rate.

- Being under the effects of Cover (Paladin ability) should prevent you from trying to capture a point.

- Some jobs feel horribly useless in PvP, dancer being one of them and I don’t play one. Only their LB is decent because it cannot be removed. Which leads me to my next point :

- Purify should purge every crowd control, no exception, no favorites : White Mage pig spell, Dancer LB and many others.

- Purify should actually do what it does and prevent other crowd control effects from affecting you for a few seconds. Still doesn’t work after 3 seasons.

- Make crowd control effects have a common diminishing return. This can be felt in CC but also in Frontline where you are literally unable to play your character for 20s and more. Combine that with Purify not doing what’s its supposed to do or crowd control effects that can’t be removed and you leave players with a sour taste in their mouth. I mostly play tank and watching just a few players disabling your character for 20s while you are a sitting duck is not a good feeling. It’s worse for healers and dps who die much quicker.

With a common diminishing return, you’d also fix the Dork Knight crowd control stacking in Frontlines.

- Sprint should not be permanent or an on/off ability. Absolute trash when playing melee and running after a target. Make it have a 1min cooldown with a 10-15s duration, without being removed while using skills. Just as in PvE
That way, people will learn how to position themselves and when to use it properly instead of a “oh crap” button.

The sprint combined with Ninja escape ability is terrible and makes it extremely hard to catch on unless you have as above a few players spamming crowd controls.


Frontline is already lame as it is, a few fixes like the ones above would make Frontlines less crappy to play, same for CC.

[drtasteyummy]

Homie we are 5 season into this, the devs have no idea about pvp, they don't see it as a classic MMO branch for them it's a mini game that's kinda working and that's about it.
Nothing will ever change except juggling some values every now and then to make people believe they got this not to mention they don't care about outsiders anyway. So stop wasting your time.

[Valence]

- NO oneshot gimmicks. It’s bad in any game with PvP, kills counter-play and feels cheap. This isn’t PvE (and you don’t even have that in PvE, so I’m wondering where the idea came from).
- Probably a few other oneshot abilities/gimmicks I’ve missed. You guys tell me. They should not exist at any rate.

They serve a purpose tactically, but I'm not a fan either, at least for the problematic ones (Seiton, Zantetsuken, and Meteodrive), that are actually problematic for a different reason than shutting down the proper targets at the right moment.

- Some jobs feel horribly useless in PvP, dancer being one of them and I don’t play one. Only their LB is decent because it cannot be removed.

DNC is an extremely good job for its survivability, incredible mobility, and AoE damage.

- Purify should purge every crowd control, no exception, no favorites : White Mage pig spell, Dancer LB and many others.

Making purify cleanse any LB effect would make those LBs totally useless.

Polymorph not being a LB though, should align on every other cc.

- Purify should actually do what it does and prevent other crowd control effects from affecting you for a few seconds. Still doesn’t work after 3 seasons.

It does prevent other cc effects from affecting you once you get the purify buff after cleansing something. Maybe the buff comes in too late server side, or maybe 5s isn't long enough, but that's another story.

[Valence]

- Make crowd control effects have a common diminishing return. This can be felt in CC but also in Frontline where you are literally unable to play your character for 20s and more. Combine that with Purify not doing what’s its supposed to do or crowd control effects that can’t be removed and you leave players with a sour taste in their mouth. I mostly play tank and watching just a few players disabling your character for 20s while you are a sitting duck is not a good feeling. It’s worse for healers and dps who die much quicker.

Having diminishing returns on CC would literally negate any kind of punishment for overextending players, if they get progressively insensitive to it anyway. If you burn your purify and decide to continue rushing headlong, you deserve to be punished for it. Actual good melee players at the top are already obnoxious to cc and kill because they're aware of this. Don't make this go overboard with that kind of nonsense.

FLs is another can of worms though, but I do believe the same principles still apply. People that get literally chainstunned even in FL usually did something very stupid to get the attention of 20 different players, and then complain that it's not fair. Sometimes it happens to me, and I'm not throwing a tantrum about it, because it's probably MY mistake in the first place.

- Sprint should not be permanent or an on/off ability. Absolute trash when playing melee and running after a target. Make it have a 1min cooldown with a 10-15s duration, without being removed while using skills. Just as in PvE
That way, people will learn how to position themselves and when to use it properly instead of a “oh crap” button.

Playing mostly ranged myself in CC, melees can already be absolutely obnoxious to deal with and they're filled with gap closers and cc to the brim (for most), while ranged jobs often also have to deal with cast times or reduced mobility to make a stand. If the idea is to completely shut down any ranged job instead of just pressuring them, then by all means, remove us one of the only ways we have to get away.

I do believe that this is just an actual red herring because once you're reduced to a scenario where a melee is chasing behind a ranged (or any job trying to flee for their life really) for ages after the initial clash and burst, we're in a situation where:

1) The melee just failed to burst down the target, or successfully pressured the target away.
2) The team mates of the target player are not doing their job into punishing such a stupid over extension, which can indicate the team already crumbling and choking, or just bad play.

[True-to-Caesar]

Playing mostly ranged myself in CC, melees can already be absolutely obnoxious to deal with and they're filled with gap closers and cc to the brim (for most), while ranged jobs often also have to deal with cast times or reduced mobility to make a stand. If the idea is to completely shut down any ranged job instead of just pressuring them, then by all means, remove us one of the only ways we have to get away.

I do believe that this is just an actual red herring because once you're reduced to a scenario where a melee is chasing behind a ranged (or any job trying to flee for their life really) for ages after the initial clash and burst, we're in a situation where:

1) The melee just failed to burst down the target, or successfully pressured the target away.
2) The team mates of the target player are not doing their job into punishing such a stupid over extension, which can indicate the team already crumbling and choking, or just bad play.

If you spam sprint to kite, you can get away from most situations from melees because they simply have no slow to chase targets.

Best case a gap closer gives you a chance to use a small stun or a single ability if you don’t have any cc at all. That’s why you see it in other games because the ranged class would just run, spam abilities while watching the melee chasing and dying because they were not able to catch up. Ranged themselves usually have crowd control abilities such as a snare or a slow, to allow them for a bit of breathing room.

We have none of that here. Just spam sprint and that’s it. It’s cheesy as hell. I’m sure you yourself just saw yet another ninja abusing this and went like «*yea keep running dog*», because there’s basically nothing to be done unless you have a squad with ccs to prevent the ninja from playing at all.

[Garten]

I'm leveling an alt right now that only has whm unlocked and i am doing a LOT of Frontlines with him.
Playing whm instead of ninja Is like night and day. I do shit damage, ppl see me and INSTANTLY charge at me (in the back rows where i stay, covering with fear).
My heals suck, cause by the time i try to CAST one spell the person i try to heal is already dead ..
Sure, sometime i make the difference, and still manage to finish a match with no deaths and BH 3 or 4, but gosh, the pain...
Everyone says that pvp now Is Just all dps with a flavour of healer or tanks, tell them to the darks premade that come, pull, come, pull and kill everyone. (notice: you can't EVADE drawin effects, you can just Tp away if you have a tp) With ninja i can protect and shukuchi away, with whm i can at best imp One, and then get played like a ping pong ball and then die.
In Cristalline Whm Is a Beast (Is my main there so i think i know how to play at least decently), but frontline Is and Absolute mess.
Frontline Is now melee territory, and no amount of silly screenshot of ppl playing Mch with 3 bazillion of DMG (where i think prob al enemies prob fell asleep in responve to a vuduu spell) can change my mind lol

[Llynethil]

FL needs BH removed, then remove or lower dr on a job to job basis, and then once those are done look at cc having diminishing returns, that's about it.

If a job is problematic after that you can adjust their skills as need be.

[Garten]

FL needs BH removed, then remove or lower dr on a job to job basis, and then once those are done look at cc having diminishing returns, that's about it.

If a job is problematic after that you can adjust their skills as need be.

What i find absurd, and i'll die on this hill, is that at my knowledge NOBODY asked for DRs. I, as a ninja, i only asked for a fall-off damage on aoes (and a possible change of purify->fetterward).
But instead SE went the LAZY route and just slapped a random Dr on everybody.

[True-to-Caesar]

What i find absurd, and i'll die on this hill, is that at my knowledge NOBODY asked for DRs. I, as a ninja, i only asked for a fall-off damage on aoes (and a possible change of purify->fetterward).
But instead SE went the LAZY route and just slapped a random Dr on everybody.

I don’t think it’s random but per type of cc : stun, bind etc.
Doesn’t impact the DRK draw in effect afaik and the LB stuff

[Caddo]

FL needs BH removed, then remove or lower dr on a job to job basis, and then once those are done look at cc having diminishing returns, that's about it.

If a job is problematic after that you can adjust their skills as need be.

This 10000%. Just remove battle high at this point. The team doing well gets stronger while the teams not doing well lose a chance of even making a comeback (unless it's RNG nodes like Seize/Daan) but even then can easily be facerolled by the team with most BH's.