Simple changes that would tremendously help PvP

[Valence]

I keep seeing people pooping on BRD in general, but I actually feel like I am controlling the flow of combat as BRD in CC. It's kind of a neat roll buffing people and crowd controlling targets while still doing a decent bit of burst on the enemy team. I feel like most people who play BRD anywhere in FFXIV really just want Ranger from 11 or Hunter from wow instead of the BRD/RNG highbred we got.

They don't, because as soon as bard loses most of its buffs (cf ShB pve) all hell gets loose (with reason).

But otherwise yeah BRD buffs in pvp right now are way more prevalent than the shitty DNC partner, that's at best good for the fan dance IV damage reduction but is otherwise a single target only for the rest, and restrained by range as well (BRD is as well but doesn't have to worry about the partner going to narnia, rest of the party still receives buffs).

Also, I've seen an actual lack of good bards in pvp. BRD has a pretty good sustained damage and can actually secure kills for itself with a little burst that will deal quite a bit of damage while the target is silenced. You can feel the difference when you get targeted by a good bard player, it often gets you off guard because you're just not used to it. Good luck surviving a bard bursting you down when you're half HP and they silence you there. The time to purify if you have it, and it's often too late not to just die. The great thing about nocturne isn't that it's CC, is that it's an OGCD CC which means it's decoupled from your burst actions.

BRD is one of those pvp jobs that has a very diffuse effect on games and that is extremely hard to measure (vs "omg the DRG just killed 3 people with LB" kind of deal). 10% damage buff for instance, is always hard to feel ingame, but sometimes it's also probably the difference between a death or not (10% of a 50k burst? That's 55k now. 10% of a damage tally? That's 10% more pressure on enemy resources... does it makes up for taking a bard instead of say, another melee dps? I don't know).

Now I'll be the first one to admit that BRD's LB is atrocious, especially on its terrible charge time (but not only), but for the rest the job is pretty solid. Paean is actually insane as well.

[Connor]

snip

It makes sense to do if on a job by job basis for adding new abilities since different jobs could use different things. I just feel like some jobs could use an extra cool-down or two

As for Bard, feeling like you’re doing something is great, but aren’t you kind of holding your team back by playing a Bard? It just doesn’t feel very useful compared to like Samurai, Ninja, or even other ranged like Machinist or Summoner. I’m not sure pressing silence every 15 seconds really qualifies as ‘controlling the battle’ lol, or at least it doesn’t feel that way to me. It can potentially be broken powerful, sure, but also fairly easy to plan around if you’re prepared. Scholar has that playstyle down to a tee in PvP, however, with managing and spreading Galvanize and Biolysis buff/debuff, and using Seraph which gives the same effect as Warden’s Paean but to all party members in range. Or Astrologian with cards, Gravity II and Double Cast additional effects.

I’m not sure what the last part really has to do with PvP, but surely PvP Bard epitomizes the singing Ranger archetype everyone begs for? Our songs are literal Archery attacks now lol. I get that they needed to consolidate buttons but surely it would’ve made more sense for Frontliner’s March and Forte to be actual song buttons like Nocturne than being a passive aspect of your burst lol (and only AoE)

[Elfidan]

yes they definitely do need to look at each job and adjust some cooldowns as some are stacked while others don't really get as much. A prime example is comparing RPR to any of the other melee. Everyone else can gap close 2-3 times with loads of added effects and the like, meanwhile RPR can't even openly egress without having used ingress first which is a really awesome thing about it outside pvp.

I mean if you consider silence the only control BRD has we just have vastly different opinions. Being able to time and position for party-wide buffs leading up to a series of bursts, Cleaving the enemy team who are trying to stack to push the crystal, or binding a player out of mp before they can escape really does feel like more control than most other jobs to me because none of these are limit break gimmicks that you have to wait on a bar to charge for.

No, RNG in 11 was a lot more like MCH doing burst where every hit was massive. It's like playing a Marksman hunter in wow during any of the era's where they absolutely dumpstered everyone. BRD in 14 leans more toward the BRD from 11 where buffing is really important to not mess up and keep timed properly. PVP however is a bit more flexible since it's quick engagements often. People really don't seem to want BRD to be a buffing job in terms of PVP at least they always talk about how it can't solo anyone in FL or how it's holding the team back in CC. I personally will take a good BRD over other supportive DPS any day. I don't know if comparing it to healers though is really that good of a thing to do since they fulfill a different sort of support. It's more like DNC than anything else in pvp.

[Connor]

BRD in 14 leans more toward the BRD from 11 where buffing is really important to not mess up and keep timed properly.

FFXIV’s Bard specifically came from Archer in 1.23 because they wanted to move away from the XI style Bard that was pure support. The developers also literally admitted it was a big mistake and they never should’ve done it.

They also thought ‘Hunter’ would be too boring for most players, so they layered songs abilities on top of Archery and called it ‘Bard’. Between 1.23 - 4.0 Bard was closer to the XI model where you had actual spells that you sing to grant buffs to party members (1.23 was pure XI style buff application, 2.0 onwards used aura style buffs for songs). For Bard’s ‘songs’ now, effects are 30 yalms from the user after the ability, and it acts as an aura around the Bard, rather than just applying the buff to anyone nearby on usage. Positioning for songs isn’t really necessary (unless you’ve got a party member who’s really far away for some reason lol). Unless you mean to maximise the dps from Apex/Blast, which makes more sense, but doesn’t really have anything to do with ‘support’ really.

Then 4.0 came and they decided ‘you know what this job needs? More Archery ’. So they deleted the old songs, replaced with oGCD attack abilities and specifically tied them to your personal dps rotation so you never have to think about supporting again. Then you get to 6.3 and it may as well be entirely passive because all the support comes out at the same time as your burst anyway. Buffing is literally the least important part of Bard and that’s entirely intentional lol; what’s most important is your dps output. Hence why Blast and Apex also happen to give the party buffs (for no apparent reason lol).

Personally I agree that Bard should be more like it’s XI counterpart. But it really doesn’t feel like that to me, especially in PvP. Sure, being able to Bind and Silence enemies is useful, I guess, but as I said couldn’t you just go Ninja and do the exact same but with better damage? Stun, Heavy and an instant-kill at 50% HP and single target healing for a party member and large shield for self? And as if that wasn’t enough you also have literally the exact same non-lb support as a Bard lol. 10% damage increase (albeit not with full uptime but then you can’t use Apex/Blast as burst if you’re going full uptime since you need to use them as soon as possible.

[Elfidan]

It's always been an issue in every game that people discount supportive jobs/classes/races because somehow in all these years we still don't see metrics for the support.

I like the LB as a opener into a push because if everyone else is firing off their LB you probably win and get a slight leg up on the next engagement. At the same time I have made my feelings about persistent limit breaks known across multiple posts. They suck. Imagine being a WHM for instance and just blasting whenever feels right compared to being a GNB and having to bait out CC casts and the like. It needs attention.

[Valence]

To be honest it should fall under common sense to use channeled LBs and actions only when you have purify ready.

Yeah I'm not talking about **** polymorph.

[Kansene]

To be honest it should fall under common sense to use channeled LBs and actions only when you have purify ready.

Yeah I'm not talking about **** polymorph.

Dunno how it is with others, but GNB LB disables all other buttons except the finisher, so quite often you'll find yourself rushing in, LBing, then instantly rooted so you're stuck there spinning like a beyblade while the enemy casually walks out of reach.
Best to wait to be CC'd even before the LB so yiu get the immunity buff, or pop the finisher instantly. (But even with the immunity you can get insta imped lul)

[Astralrisk]

Dunno how it is with others, but GNB LB disables all other buttons except the finisher, so quite often you'll find yourself rushing in, LBing, then instantly rooted so you're stuck there spinning like a beyblade while the enemy casually walks out of reach.
Best to wait to be CC'd even before the LB so yiu get the immunity buff, or pop the finisher instantly. (But even with the immunity you can get insta imped lul)

At least for GNB, I think they should be CC immune like they were under the effect of guard when doing their LB. If we compare it to other tank LBs, all of them also have a defensive aspect of either getting some death immunity(PLD and DRK) or CC prevention(WAR). GNB does get 25% DR but I don't think that is nearly as good, and still being able to be stunned out of it doesn't feel great. I know DNC also has that same ability, but since it's a 30 second CD and not an LB I don't think it needs that effect. However, I don't have any real knowledge of that job so I don't want to comment on too much on them specifically.

[Valence]

Dunno how it is with others, but GNB LB disables all other buttons except the finisher, so quite often you'll find yourself rushing in, LBing, then instantly rooted so you're stuck there spinning like a beyblade while the enemy casually walks out of reach.
Best to wait to be CC'd even before the LB so yiu get the immunity buff, or pop the finisher instantly. (But even with the immunity you can get insta imped lul)

Yes, that one is problematic. I wish they didn't grey out purify for such cases. Nobody needs it on DNC since you're not controlling your character anymore, but on GNB it's an eyesore.

At least for GNB, I think they should be CC immune like they were under the effect of guard when doing their LB. If we compare it to other tank LBs, all of them also have a defensive aspect of either getting some death immunity(PLD and DRK) or CC prevention(WAR). GNB does get 25% DR but I don't think that is nearly as good, and still being able to be stunned out of it doesn't feel great. I know DNC also has that same ability, but since it's a 30 second CD and not an LB I don't think it needs that effect. However, I don't have any real knowledge of that job so I don't want to comment on too much on them specifically.

To play devil's advocate, GNB also has an insanely fast charging LB (the fastest with BLM), so it doesn't quite compare with other tanks.

Though i'd rather have them resist CC or whatever fits the bill in exchange for an increased LB charge time if it's really warranted.

[Wadimiru]

All that they need to change = fire that imbeciles who suggest changes in pwp on all duration from endwalker and return pre-endwalker pvp. Where u hands could influence on smthing and pvp dont focus on crowd on crowd, where ur rotation was able to decide who will win in 1v1 clashes. But i think that dev team really suck at pvp so they decide - even such curvehanded people as we must be even with people who loved pvp and trained skill using, tactics and synergies. And of course they current mood = less buttons for imbeciles.