Inevitable Job Simplifications?

[Renathras]

the fact is that it is not necessary for the players to know how to get to a perfect optimization of the class, the game does not require it. But it should be sacrosanct that a player who wants to main a class be encouraged to do more and improve.

Again: Why?

I'm not asking this over and over to be obnoxious. I'm asking it over and over to show that it ISN'T nor "should" it be "sacrosanct". There's no why to it. No explanation forthcoming. Not reason it needs to be true or must be true.

(perhaps a class that used to be one way and now is completely different)

Once more: Different argument.

I already agree that Old SMN should be in the game still in one form or another. That isn't an argument for why New SMN shouldn't exist.

The smn shouldn't be more complex in general, the smn should provide that players who want to play pok*mon maybe want more than just having elon musk's autopilot.

2x "should" in that statement. WHY?

So having depth in a class leads to more fun for more people

For SOME people.

More is debatable, considering SMN is currently the most played Caster. One must assume at least SOME of that majority are having fun. Turns out, a TON of people have "more fun" with a class that doesn't "have depth". What evidence do you have that more depth = more fun for more people? Were more people playing SMN before the rework or after it?

and not just one part, basically currently you're foreclosing people from having fun and that's not good.

a) No, you're not. There are plenty of other Jobs if people want something harder. Contrast Healers where they're all literally the same rotation.

b) YOU'RE foreclosing people from having fun who like simpler Jobs. Again, SMN is the most played Caster right now. A lot of those people are having fun with it and you seek to rob them of their fun - foreclose them from having fun. How is that good?

Well, fflog is used by a community of people who play high-level content. This is clearly a hypothesis, but until it is refuted there is always the benefit of the doubt: high-level players are cynical, why having to bang your head with the rdm if with the same dps there is the smn which has the autorun? With the Blm the same goes if he competes for the caster position and not for melee as a raid does not need so much dps to be cleared.

This is the point, though - if high level players wanted "the challenge", they'd be playing BLM not SMN. "Why play the harder Job when you could play the easier one?" implies that people PREFER EASIER JOBS. Again, if you only get people playing hard Jobs when you FORCE THEM INTO IT, it means people DON'T LIKE harder Jobs. I'm not sure how better to say "hard Job's aren't fun for the majority" than that.

Moreover: Logs also catch people in 4 mans and 24 mans. That's probably the best measure of the playerbase as a whole. Let's have a look.

Euphrosine: 85,060 SMNs

The next highest is DNC at around 75,500. RPR and RDM are just under 70k, respectable. Where's BLM? Oh, right: 39,474 as of this writing.

Every metric we have and all the data we have any kind of access to says that SMN is the most played DPS Job. It's not just high end players being lazy on farms. Top to bottom, when given the choice of what DPS Job to play, SMN is winning every time. It's winning with hardcore players that SUPPOSEDLY want a hard challenge and high skill ceiling. It's winning with the casual crowd that doesn't care about min-maxing or that SMN does more damage than RDM. It's winning by players with Extreme clears and people who have never set foot outside of the MSQ.

We see a similar pattern with Healers (WHM is the most played) and Tanks (WAR and PLD - now also considered "braindead" are the most played), and even within the subroles of DPS RPR, DNC, and SMN (all considered the easiest in Melee, Ranged, and Caster, respectively) are the most played. An often asked question on Reddit is "What Tank/Healer/Melee/Ranged/Caster/DPS is the easiest?" People aren't asking that question so they can avoid the Jobs they're told are easy.

All this should tell you something.

And the something it should tell you is not "people are lazy" (though that IS true); it should tell you people find easy Jobs fun and desirable.

And even if you think people are often wrong: So what? If it's what THEY WANT, then you shouldn't be taking that from them. Especially while you still HAVE Jobs like MNK and BLM. And again, I AGREE that Old SMN should be readded to the game in some way, so that's not a counter here.

I would like to see if the same percentages would remain if the smn had the dps it deserves based on the producers' statements:
"Adjustments for each job are made individually based on the damage value, which is the standard value according to the item level, based on the difficulty of operation of each job, the difficulty of rotation, the number of support actions, and the details of their effects".

And what makes you think it doesn't? Clearly, they've had several chances to nerf it if they thought it was exceeding their desires. The obvious answer is it's where they deem it should be based on difficulty x number of support actions x details of their effects.

The smn is a full-blown bypass of the minimum skill requirements that a high-level raid requires in general and therefore cynically convenient.

Irrelevant.

If the high end players wanted high skill ceiling, hard Jobs as you say they do, they wouldn't be playing the easiest Job in the game.

That argument makes literally no sense.

"I want everything to be high skill ceiling, otherwise it's not fun."
"So which one are you going to play tonight?"
"The easiest one in the game with a super low skill ceiling."

That makes zero sense.

I LOATHE this argument because it's just such a bad argument. That people want something so much, they...uh...actively avoid it if at all possible. <_<

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Once more:

There are a LOT of "should"s in your post. But I'm not asking for shoulds.

I'm asking for WHY.