Inevitable Job Simplifications?

[Renathras]

Okay going to try to make my posts shorter and more direct:

You realize that literally nothing, in spite of what you like to pretend, is objective in that kind of "discussion", right?

That's...
...literally...
...MY...
...point!

You're attacking me for doing the thing that you have been doing. <_<

/sigh

The reason I ask you questions is to try to establish a baseline. Maybe you like sweet things and I like sour things, but it helps to have at least a working definition of what sweet IS, otherwise we can't discuss it.

And stop trying the appeal to bandwagon/group fallacy. You speak for yourself and the 4-5 people that like all your posts, not everyone else. "to everybody" is clearly not so. And how do you think YOU look "to everybody", btw? But that gets into the realm of personal attacks and has no place here (your 5 loyal likers be damned). This is the third time, I believe, you're purported to speak for "everybody" or "we".

You have literally here argued, I remember, for some jobs to be easy, and some to be hard.

Yes, I have.

Easy and hard.

Not braindead. Not "skill floor equal skill ceiling". You made up those parts.

Ergo, yes, you're arguing to enforce easy jobs down the throats of people.

These quotes are all variations on the same theme, so grouping together:

This makes literally no sense if I'm only suggesting - not enforcing - that _A_ simple Job existing is acceptable. It's also very odd that you say this while YOU are proposing forcing complex Jobs on "down the throats of people". Again, you're doing the thing you attack me of doing. You're demanding that NO Job have a low skill ceiling. This means that you are demanding that all Jobs have a NOT low skill ceiling. I'm suggesting ONE Job having a low skill ceiling is acceptable. Which of those is forcing something down people's throats, exactly?

Why what I want, being every job being accessible yet with some mechanical depth, should be "forced" on everyone?

When you're saying any Job that does not have that is not allowed to exist, then yes. You want to force it on everyone.

Unless you've changed your mind and believe that Jobs with no mechanical depth are acceptable and allowed?

I mean, are you arguing to force on everyone your arbitrary levels of complexity and/or intricacy/depth instead?

No.

Because UNLIKE you with demands for greater complexity, I don't insist that the simple end of the spectrum be forced on every Job in the game.

I don't know man, but between the two, I do feel that my model is a lot more inclusive.

You think a model that disallows easy Jobs and only allows medium or above is more inclusive than a model that allows for easy, medium, and hard and above Jobs? How do you figure that, EXACTLY? How do you figure a model (yours) which excludes one category is MORE INCLUSIVE than a model that excludes none?

And on top of it, your model introduces yet another contradictory statement of yours, which bases itself on the fact that even raiders will often follow the path of least resistance (true!), yet surprisingly you'd advocate for easy jobs to play in the same roles than harder jobs to play. Why is that, if not to double down even more into totally lopsided play ratios even at high level?

This is a fascinating leap in logic.

How is saying "one Job being easy is fine" the same as saying "all Jobs should be made easy"? I want to know EXACTLY how you are arriving at that conclusion, because that's the strawman you're arguing against.

Case in point.

No - question you refuse to answer. I'll ask it again:

WHY must all Jobs have a skill high skill ceiling?

I never argued for anything remotely close to people needing to improve.

This is you YET AGAIN dodging direct questions. Moreover, the questions that actually get to the heart of the matter:

Why is that important? Why is that necessary?

If I'm preaching to the choir, great. Choir, please answer the questions.

.

Going to skim through some of this since you guys keep complaining about my post length. If you want me to answer more thoroughly, I can, but then you can't complain about the length.

What the hell are you talking about.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, to make Jobs with highly variable but EQUALLY VIABLE rotations, it requires something of a customization system, like a Talent system or some such. As FFXIV doesn't have this, it doesn't work.

A medium difficulty Job can sometimes be made with variable nuance, but they are not equally viable when played at both ends. The fact that there is only ONE example of it indicates how difficult it is to do successfully. It's not impossible to make a moderate difficulty Job have a scaling to high difficulty, it's just rare to do it where it works. And given RDM's damage, it arguably ISN'T working right now anyway.

Again, make up your mind?

Again I'll present the question so you can dodge it once more:

"What is absent from these conversations is WHY no Job may be ALLOWED to have a low skill ceiling"?

I agree with this and I apologize for the few times I've used it.

Fair enough.

.

There's a lot of "gotcha" attempts in that post I'm going to cut out to try and shorten this, because they're pointless bickering and derailing (what I'm always accused of due to other people doing it...) and are just that. Anyway, hope the shorter version helps. I may just start cutting everything out but the questions and just ask them again and again until you can answer them...since I really DO think that cuts to the heart of the matter:

Why can't there be low skill ceiling Jobs in the game? Why is it necessary that they all not be?

.

EDIT: UGH!!!

Like are you for real?

So...you took a quote, apologized for doing it, then brought it up a second time as an attack?

Like...are you for real?