Inevitable Job Simplifications?

[Dahlinea]

1) Yes, you were. If you were coming up on a DWT and hadn't needed to use your Egi-Assaults for movement, you were forced to blow them now - AND if you were at 4 stacks of Further Ruin, to blow 1 of those first before each Egi-Assault to prevent overcapping on Further Ruin. You needed to use them since they were DPS gains and to get them ticking again while also refreshing to 4 stacks before DWT so that when you rolled into Bahamut you had 4 ready to go but didn't overcap on either Further Ruin (by using Egi-Assaults above 4 stacks) or on Egi-Assaults (by having them sit off CD). I'm not sure you played Old SMN, or if you did, that you remember it well/knew what you were doing if you genuinely believe this. Further, you HAD to go into DWT/FBT on strict timings. "Oh, there's a heavy movement phase in 25 seconds but I'm at the 1 min mark...guess I'm using FBT and all my instants right now anyway!" You absolutely had to use your instants during non-movement periods ALL THE TIME on Old SMN. And there was nothing wrong with that then, either. If the fight didn't demand you use them all for movement, it didn't. If your free movement DWT/FBT came up during low movement phases, well, they did and you had to use them. End of story.

2) Horse hockey. Not only are you dodging because you know your argument is wrong and you CAN'T defend it, now you're lying. I've not said New SMN is some well of depth. I've said New SMN is FINE. I've also said it has less depth and optimization (skill ceiling) than Old SMN. Pretty much everything I've said is either objectively true or is reasonably true. You won't engage on the points because you have no legs to stand on.

3) See 2. Also: This is an ad hominem fallacy.

4) What's clear is you didn't play or didn't know Old SMN at all: See (1). I gave actual EXAMPLES of how Old SMN works - something you've yet to do. I actually understood the Job, and how to maximize what it could pull out as well as the complete rotation cycle, something you've yet to demonstrate any knowledge of. And as I said, Old SMN was a great Job in terms of having a high level of flexibility. A position you hold, so telling me I'm wrong on the one thing I'm agreeing with you on seems very very odd. I'm not comparing their complexity - I've already said Old SMN was more complex - I'm comparing their functionality - an argument you're studiously avoiding because it doesn't fit your narrative. You keep trying to say depth and complexity, two things I haven't contested New SMN has far less of. FAR LESS of, not ZERO. It objectively has greater than zero, so you insisting it doesn't is you denying factual reality. It doesn't have as much as you want, and again, that's fine for you to say. It's fine for you to want more. But stop lying about it.

5) See (4)

6) Stop lying. New SMN is alright. It's not what you want. Just say this:

"New SMN is not what I want."

That's what you should be saying right now. Is that soooooo hard?

.

1) Because it "just works" is what makes it fine, actually. Depth is not required for a Job to be fine. WAR has almost no depth, too, but is fine.

2) Wrong. Even the Balance has noted there are optimizations for the Job. There just aren't many. But you missed the point - it doesn't require theorycrafters just to figure out what it should be doing (base rotation). I didn't mention the words optimize or "improve the rotation".

3) SMN doesn't play at all like BLU, rofl! If it did, you wouldn't be complaining about it... Of all the whoppers you've said so far, that's probably the worst. Final Fantasy games RARELY have "summons on the field". FF3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, Tactics, 9, 15 all had Summons that appeared, fired off a huge attack, and then left. That's actually the norm for how Summons work in the series. The Demi-type summons that come in and stick around for a short time fighting alongside the Summoner, like FF 12, 13, and arguably 10, though 10 could be the one example oh persistent ones since they would stay around until KOed. "summons on field" is actually the single most uncommon form of Summons in all of Final Fantasy lore and history.

Again, all you're spouting off is hyperbole, added with a health dose of lying - both about what I'm arguing (I'm not arguing that New SMN is a bastion of complexity and depth, and never have; I've said it has more than ZERO, which is true, and have said it has less than Old SMN did, which is also true) and about your knowledge. That level of deception is ill suited to having a text argument where the other person can just point to the very words you quoted to show you're lying.

You need to lay off they hyperbole and sweeping false statements. Again, just say this:

"New SMN is not what I want."

That’s my last response to you. It’s quite clear you are dead set on accepting the braindead job no matter how bad it is from a LV90 job perspective and how bad the progress in the lower levels actually is, you see, the job as whole. But let me phrase this one more time with all the letters, maybe it goes through you, although I have no hopes for it: “It’s not fine for a job at max level to play like a job that mechanically works like the same job at LV70.” You literally have one more button to press and that’s what makes it different from it’s LV70 counterpart. This is not fine at all from the perspective of a job that would progress and get more skills as you level up. Coupled with the fact that other jobs are getting streamlined too, SMN being the more dramatic case, and how you see a lot of people complaining about this tendency, this is not fine at all.
Now on to your topics:
1) End of the story for you. It’s easy to say SMN used instacasts all the time, except you forgot to say that every instacast SMN used, if you did the opener right, was done to weave an oGCD that was available. There was Energy Drain at 30 secs mark, Fester, Tri-disaster. Aside from Phoenix that was a combo of instacasts, every single instacast of old SMN was to weave something. The last two Egi-assaults before that DWT that you claim you “have to burn” was used to weave between DWT and Deathflare, which was decoupled from Summon Bahamut, to get the last 2 stacks of Further Ruin and the proceed to summon Bahamut. And even during Bahamut, these 4 insta casts were used to weave oGCDs. There were no wasted opportunities with old SMN unlike this new one, that lacks basic oGCDs and flexibility in the usage of its spells to even feel like a LV90 job.
Also, yes, SMN benefitted from holding Bahamut in certain instances. An example of this is during Fragor Maximus in the fight with Eden Prime on Savage. When Eden Prime was in one corner casting his room wide AoE you generally were in a part of the rotation where you would use DWT, and it was better to hold Bahamut for the adds than using it there because usually the raid buffs would have come from CD.



2,3 and 4) The talk was always about depth of the job and never about functionality. You decided to compare that way on own to change the subject. And on that suject, old SMN was about thinking about the fight and carefully consider your hard casts and insta casts during 70%-80% of your rotation to not incur on instances of having to move and end up losing DPS using Ruin II. Current SMN has only 3 hard casts, that becomes 2 if you Swiftcast one, and on top of that you don’t have freedom with your spells nor oGCDs to fill the gaps and the result is seeing yourself casting insta casts during down time on various occasions. There's a very clear difference functionality here where one require more awareness of the player and the other is "just use the hightlighted skill".

6) Instead, you could just admit that you like the braindead job and want it to stay that way with no depth. Because that’s what it seems to me.
So I’ll say for the last time. New SMN has no depth for a LV90 job and has problems with level progression because of that and that IS NOT ALRIGHT. Case closed.