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  1. #1
    Player
    Rilifane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,580
    Character
    Esther Harper
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Valence View Post
    I just do feel that they keep removing more and more proc and priority based mechanics in jobs, and procs should be one of the ways to go to generate those decisions on the spot. This is literally what makes me play DPS jobs. I don't like melees due to the aforementioned design (I hate positionals with a burning passion, and that's just subjective taste). At least melees still have branching combos, even though they've been simplifying those too (Ninja lost the dot branch, etc), but recently they've been actually adding combos without any branching steps, which I find absolutely baffling (MCH and RPR). What is even the point of those when they could just be reduced to a single pvp button that does the same thing? It's just 3 buttons that are bloating your hotbar for very little gain in complexity. One simple thing they could do to make DRG more engaging is adding a small rng element between Fang and Wheeling.
    I've always been more fond or priorities and random elements over static and strict rotations. The former allows for a more dynamical adjustment to your own skill and the current fight while keeping it interesting long-term as you can never completely predict what you will get.
    BLM is one of the last remaining classes with a solid amount of priority/ rng elements that make an actual difference and isn't just a "feels bad" via Thundercloud/ Firestarter procs and mana ticks while still allowing you to play a straightforward standard rotation and perform well enough with it. But if your rotation is 12345 with 6 and 7 kept on cooldown then your rotation is 12345 with 6 and 7 on cooldown and that's set in stone. No ifs and buts (barring very, very few niche cases). While on BLM if you want to push it, you will have plenty of opportunities for "if mana tick occured before halfway through the cast then you can do this" or "if you got a proc you can also do this". The dps gain for optimizing is tiny which is why it's such a valid option to not optimize. The skill ceiling exists, it keeps it interesting but there's no pressure to do it since it could easily result in a dps loss if you're not comfortable with it. And that is imo the ideal scenario.

    Another downside to static rotations is that from the lack of meaningful interaction between skills you need to have more buttons for the same level of engagement than a rotation that has varying degrees of priority/ rng in it.
    Keeping a buff up with a 123 every 30s isn't meaningful interaction between 2 and 3, you do it because it's always the only way to go about it and it doesn't modify your gameplay. A chance of a skill resetting the cooldown of another skill does and there is a more constant need to pay attention and react as opposed to "I know I have to press 123 for 30s and then I press everything else in this exact order". It's generally better for button economy and the wasteful use of hotbar slots that SE keeps going for ("this skill... but aoe!", "can only be used after this skill... but on a separate button!") makes the whole issue even worse.
    They're putting the car in front of the horse by going "Too many buttons, we need to prune, let's delete this skill" instead of looking at why they feel they have to add so many stale fluff buttons in the first place. And you wouldn't need 5 buttons with a flat "use on cooldown, it's free potency" if the other existing buttons had meaningful interaction, give choices and leave a skill ceiling.

    Fight design alone isn't the solution imo.
    I agree that the static fight design quickly turns incredibly stale but I also think a very large portion of the engagement should come from the class and not just the encounter. Because you will inevitably end up playing your class in content that doesn't provide a high level of engagement through mechanics, like fates, treasure maps, solo duties, old content, overworld questing etc. and then what? Everyone is condemned to be bored to tears when doing that content?
    It also partly solves the outgearing content problem because even with gear trivializing mechanics and giving you a lot more leeway for standing in bad, the class itself will still keep you busy enough.
    Always reacting appropriately doesn't have to result in massively higher dps gain either. As long as this skill ceiling exists.
    (5)

  2. #2
    Player
    Valence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    5,243
    Character
    Sunie Dakwhil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rilifane View Post
    Another downside to static rotations is that from the lack of meaningful interaction between skills you need to have more buttons for the same level of engagement than a rotation that has varying degrees of priority/ rng in it.
    Keeping a buff up with a 123 every 30s isn't meaningful interaction between 2 and 3, you do it because it's always the only way to go about it and it doesn't modify your gameplay. A chance of a skill resetting the cooldown of another skill does and there is a more constant need to pay attention and react as opposed to "I know I have to press 123 for 30s and then I press everything else in this exact order". It's generally better for button economy and the wasteful use of hotbar slots that SE keeps going for ("this skill... but aoe!", "can only be used after this skill... but on a separate button!") makes the whole issue even worse.
    They're putting the car in front of the horse by going "Too many buttons, we need to prune, let's delete this skill" instead of looking at why they feel they have to add so many stale fluff buttons in the first place. And you wouldn't need 5 buttons with a flat "use on cooldown, it's free potency" if the other existing buttons had meaningful interaction, give choices and leave a skill ceiling.
    This is incidentally why I find the RPR design this expansion to be completely mindboggling in nature. I guess they tried to do a MCH variant for melee with a basic combo with no branches, but on top of it reintroduced a mechanic that's been consistently sniped out of other jobs like DRG for instance (a buff/debuff to keep up with one button/skill that's not included into any mechanics related to the skillset, and which already is a prime target for deletion in one expansion or another make room for other things). And the whole single target toolset has been duplicated into its AoE version, with every skill having its AoE counterpart, which bloats the hotbars so much while the job actually has an extremely simplistic rotation. They've completely avoided on purpose with that job to use the more common design by now consisting into adding AoE falloff damage to a lot of abilities that are shared between the single target and AoE sets in most jobs (some more than others), and which dramatically reduces that unecessary button bloat.

    I just don't understand what went into the design of that job.
    (6)