Inevitable Job Simplifications?

[Renathras]

I agree with this. Jobs can be complex without increasing the skill floor with an avenue to express mastery over your favorite Job(s) with an increased skill ceiling that is entirely " Optional to master ".

I think the problem with this is it's one of those designs that's fantastic on paper but doesn't work in the real world. ANYTHING related to damage will never be "optional" in a realistic sense. Utility, sure. A RDM that can throw in Verraises seemlessly in its rotation is great. A RDM that only uses Jolt (not Fire/Stone) is not, because in real terms the latter is hampering the party while the former MAY (situation depending) be providing redundancy (generally speaking, Healers get the first two KO's per minute, RDM/SMN should get the third or get the raise if it's one of the Healers that went down, or more than 2 people went down)

We see this a lot where people propose ideas of low skill floors and high skill ceilings, but because the skill ceiling adds significant damage, people who aren't reaching somewhat close to it are unable to clear content, or are considered to be harming other players due to their lower personal skill.

The problem with "Optional to master" is when it's never optional. No one requires perfect 100% gameplay, but players are still not allowed the "option" of significantly lower damage in content that is based around Enrage mechanics.

This is also the problem with the Job idea. For example, if we make all four healers play like SB SCH, many people would quit the role since they'd have no viable choice anymore. Whereas leaving one or two closer to what they are today fixes that problem, where players so inclined may pick which of the two they like better. This is especially true when it actively plays into the Job fantasy. For example, while one could argue for GNB or PLD to be skillful, technical combatants, WAR being unga bunga actually fills the Job fantasy of playing a raging berserker.

I do agree with you on the "less can be more" thing with buttons. A number of Jobs have extra buttons that largely just...exist to exist. Like Goring Blade on PLD right now, or Sonic Break in GNB. They don't add anything to the rotation, have no resource basis, and don't interact with any other mechanics other than they're used on CD in a buff window (but what isn't?), leading them to just be clutter that doesn't achieve anything useful.

[CelestiCer]

I think the problem with this is it's one of those designs that's fantastic on paper but doesn't work in the real world. ANYTHING related to damage will never be "optional" in a realistic sense. Utility, sure.

I'll clarify what I meant with what I wrote.

SkillFloor = barrier of entry to clear any content before Extreme difficulty. Examples: Using DutySupport NPC's to clear Dungeons while you eat a Sandwich in RL or Pressing 1 skill even though you have 15 skills available to clear 90% of all MSQ quests. The bare minimum to clear that level of content is the SkillFloor to me. The SkillCeiling is pushing Jobs to their limits, even in content without any Enrage.

Content without DPS checks makes complexity of any Job " Optional ". Any complexity that is optional is there for not goin to harm the players who are trying to clear this lvl of content. Because complexity can be added without lifting the skillfloor. Only where DPS checks matter is learning jobs properly mandatory i.e anything above Extreme Difficulty. Here adding depth to Jobs shouldn't make clearing this impossible by having Square allow a certain margin of error. Heck... as weeks go by in Savage we have players who can't find the Feint/Addle button while parties have 15 deaths in a singular pull and still clear the fight...

The appeal of complexity is to be able to do it better then it is necessary. That extra stone you're allowed to carry that another didn't. Doing dungeons and never casting Phlegma or any other AoE skill, that's the Bar Square sets. But, when someone comes a long that actually practiced their Job well? its day and night. And I wish that to be highlighted through available optional depth available for every Job.

Instead its all taken away...
Reworked, removed... every uniqueness/trait/resource interactions/simplified/homogenized/every nuance, every...everything. It becomes so Streamlined that making Content clearable becomes the priority over making Jobs as enjoyable to play.