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  1. #1
    Player
    CelestiCer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    6.08 Hissatsu: Kaiten Give it back !!! obviously, mhm.
    Posts
    879
    Character
    Celesti Cer
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    For plenty it goes to far at the cost of Fun.

    There's an audience that loves Job complexity. To spend hours to see results. The satisfaction of having mastered a Job they enjoy or love because it's Fun to execute. Job complexity benefits us players who love playing their Jobs endlessly to just play the Jobs. Simplifications stomps that passion out of players...

    Raiders who love complexity through content, are more likely to favor homogenizations because Job complexity is viewed as restrictive to develop new unique/harder fight designs. I disagree, since I believe players demanding their rotations to be more easily executable and unbroken, with the 2 min buff windows to be more restrictive then Jobs having any ounce of depth.

    As for Parsers who love rotations made easier to execute to get their crayons more easily... Why would you want your colorful rainbow numbers to devalue by making it any ounce easier to obtain by any other player? I thought the ladder was supposed to be competitive or something? making it any easier means... yeah idk about this one...

    There's also a big portion of players who do not want anything " Pre-Extreme Trials " to be made any more difficult. Different, unique, more flavorful content? sure... but not more difficult. And that's fine since most content there can be cleared while not mastering any job to any degree. Any optional complexity that is taken or given? doesn't affect them.

    As for the Yoshi's complexity argument? Just go play Ultimate?
    I couldn't give 2 (peeps!). Keep my Job fun and I will do any content. Once my Job's fun is not the focus? At that point any content is less Fun to me. You can tell me to solve a Rubik's Cube with my tongue, while juggling Circus pins with my right foot, while playing DDR with my right hand, simultaneously executing my simplified rotation while doing Ultimate or any content for that matter to satisfy any ounce of complexity... it wouldn't matter cause the Jobs is made dumb and unsatisfying to play...

    My problem with Square's direction, is that the focus is on making Content bearable and clearable. Not how fun a Job can be or was. All players will not do All Content that requires PvE combat... but all players at least have to play 1 Job at all times to do so. Make the Jobs have depth, complexity and a sense of satisfaction to execute as the priority. I will not agree that Jobs being made more fun? comes at the cost of any content in any manner.
    (16)

  2. #2
    Player
    NullPointerException's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    18
    Character
    Empty Set
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by CelestiCer View Post
    For plenty it goes to far at the cost of Fun.

    Raiders who love complexity through content, are more likely to favor homogenizations because Job complexity is viewed as restrictive to develop new unique/harder fight designs. I disagree, since I believe players demanding their rotations to be more easily executable and unbroken, with the 2 min buff windows to be more restrictive then Jobs having any ounce of depth.

    As for Parsers who love rotations made easier to execute to get their crayons more easily... Why would you want your colorful rainbow numbers to devalue by making it any ounce easier to obtain by any other player? I thought the ladder was supposed to be competitive or something? making it any easier means... yeah idk about this one...
    I think this is a huge simplification. Most raiders that I know, me included, would sincerely hope they give classes MORE skill expression. Homogenization in classes also leads to homogenization in fight design, putting damage or mechanics at 120 seconds to mess with buff windows, 120s tank busters, all that. All one optimizes for now is just "can I use 120s at 120s," isn't that boring?

    Speaking of harder or unique fight designs, I very much disagree that the homogenization in EW has really led to anything. P1S and P6S were target dummy practices. P7S was 8 minutes of sleeping + 1 semi-fun mechanic that a well-geared and skilled group can just skip now. P2S was interesting but again - the one downtime that messes with your 120s cool downs. Massive hit boxes mean that casters now have to run circles around the entire arena.

    IMO the key issue to parsers isn't the complexity themselves, since coming up with optimization for different fight timelines is a part of the fun. People are more concerned about the insane RNG variance thanks to crit, dhit, and just the 3% damage rolls. Also, homogenizing everything at 120s windows have introduced balance nightmares. By having a re-opener every 2 minutes instead of 6, Square has effectively made the variance even more disparate between classes.
    (5)