The difficulty of Normal Content in this game needs to increase.

[Volgia]

This issue with the game is not difficulty imo, it's the texture (things are too smooth). Even competitors are roughly similar (I don't die in regular wow dungeons either).

Adding challenges won't make the regular MMO player better, you'll only get a better pool by narrowing it. Many players don't want to sit down and fail for the hour they have to give the game.

I don't think generally making the game harder solves anything for anyone long term. As it isn't the core of the issue.

Healers can be valuable without a substantive increase in difficulty (meaning they feel important in regular content), content can gain variability without a large increase in difficulty, etc, etc.

I see this sentiment and I don't think they are hitting the nail on the head with difficulty. They want to feel alive again because each expansion their content loses flavors and ingredients, left with a basic oatmeal. They say if I had more ghost peppers I'd feel alive again, and maybe partially true- but they're making a terrible oatmeal doing that. Just add the actual dang ingredients back (and improve them).

It's not the difficulty but the texture of the game. Some texture may add minor challenges, but it wasn't the challenge that was making it more fun.

In the vast majority of games I almost never ever die, except for perhaps FromSoft's stuff. I don't only enjoy FromSoft's games. Death is not the key to happiness. Perhaps you weren't saying that, but honestly bad players biff it all the time in normal FFXIV content. You can almost always win without them. So really the only challenge to add then is failing the dungeon, and I think that would be bad to touch on very much if at all.

Anyway game can be slightly harder and benefit but it will be through adding texture (depth) and not specifically just challenge (like harder hitting fight isn't the solution).

¨

I think it's hard because they have to rehaul their whole CORE system of things. To my mind and as an example:

Healers don't get challenged in healing. I barely use my kit during dungeons, there's no damage triage for me to make decisions on who to heal during pulls, even in savage it's very situational when I have to focus my healing on a particular person (P8S purple circle thing comes to mind).

Tanks don't get challenged in tanking, there's no aggro management in any of the normal content, and extreme and savage content have resorted to just tank swaps.

There's no gameplay difference between casters, melees and ranged. Something like a Ninja should be able to do things like SCOUTING, Ranged should be able to trap (MCH/BRD) or Charm (DNC) CC things, Casters should be able to nuke things (BLM, PCT, SMN), other than their rotations/buffs their role in any given content remains the same.

[Shougun]

¨

I think it's hard because they have to rehaul their whole CORE system of things. To my mind and as an example:

Healers don't get challenged in healing. I barely use my kit during dungeons, there's no damage triage for me to make decisions on who to heal during pulls, even in savage it's very situational when I have to focus my healing on a particular person (P8S purple circle thing comes to mind).

Tanks don't get challenged in tanking, there's no aggro management in any of the normal content, and extreme and savage content have resorted to just tank swaps.

There's no gameplay difference between casters, melees and ranged. Something like a Ninja should be able to do things like SCOUTING, Ranged should be able to trap (MCH/BRD) or Charm (DNC) CC things, Casters should be able to nuke things (BLM, PCT, SMN), other than their rotations/buffs their role in any given content remains the same.

I generally agree that there would need to be not just 1 change but many, some substantial for sure.


I don't think tank aggro is the biggest issue, for example id probably think of adding more consistent monsters that have quirks but generally maintain the mobs is still not that hard / annoying to control. Like those that just plainly ignore aggro mechanism, or like to use unavoidable skills on the non-primary, etc. To mix it up, but not so much making it so the 2.0 era of spaming aggro skills or everything turns into a circus.


Healers have a problem... In short my thought is to parse down healing power, number of healing spells, and give each healer thematic support skills. Either offensive or defensive based on healer, both adding to damage and control. Like WHM focuses on ally targeting with buffs, heals, and no target / target of my target offensive skills. While Sage focuses on healing through the enemy, with most skills working on the target, much more kardia and offensive abilities as a whole.


Depth in the others jobs agreed too. But to think of challenge I wouldn't expect these to change the success rate of the content much (like msq is still largely a join and win queue). Like I mentioned challenge being a resource, you might reallocate some of bullet hell into a few less hells but a couple more thoughtful mechanics. Or like how I explained tank aggro - I don't think we need 2.0 back but we do need diversity of activities.

[Eyrilona]

I still think that what everyone is really feeling is that the skill training ramp from Normal -> Extreme -> Savage is too bumpy, too short, too steep, and too loaded with random barrels of toxic waste you can run into.

[TaleraRistain]

I still think that what everyone is really feeling is that the skill training ramp from Normal -> Extreme -> Savage is too bumpy, too short, too steep, and too loaded with random barrels of toxic waste you can run into.

Yep, and it's tricky. You have people who are only ever going to do the story. So you want to keep that accessible. But the jump to optional harder content could use some streamlining and become a more even curve that gradually eases a player into higher and higher requirements. They've done some things to help, like Unreal. But this is probably where something like Unreal Alliance Raid could have helped more, instead of a Savage level Chaotic raid.

[AngelicDeath]

No as someone who was and is somewhat still disabled coming from ew to dt I prefer ew lol some things I just can't keep up with this expansion. I don't do the savage content or any of that stuff cause I can't keep up with it. I don't even touch expert anymore cause this expansions is to crazy for my carpal tunnel reflexes:/ I wish they offered more casual content. maybe once I get my second surgery I'll be okay but I'm just not having fun as casual player like I was the previous 3 expansions. I won't lie i have no more interest in doing the chaotic raid because people even said casual players don't belong in the party finder and they made it known since day 2

[ReynTime]

Literally nobody asked for Variant to have 2 savage versions. That was a stupid decision from the devs, nothing more nothing less.
Variant is far too easy and going to Criterion is a big leap.

[ovIm]

Literally nobody asked for Variant to have 2 savage versions. That was a stupid decision from the devs, nothing more nothing less.
Variant is far too easy and going to Criterion is a big leap.

I feel like Variant / Criterion / Criterion Savage instances could become an interesting endgame alternative for 4 players if CS3 would allow them to be. Gradually increased difficulty in the fights, proper loot for clearing. That'd be cool.

[BigCheez]

I feel like Variant / Criterion / Criterion Savage instances could become an interesting endgame alternative for 4 players if CS3 would allow them to be. Gradually increased difficulty in the fights, proper loot for clearing. That'd be cool.

Variant/Criterion definitely had some problems but I think it was a decent first pass and could have been turned into something great if they had stuck with it and tried to refine the concept.

[ovIm]

Variant/Criterion definitely had some problems but I think it was a decent first pass and could have been turned into something great if they had stuck with it and tried to refine the concept.

Well, we are getting more Variants and Criterions (at least I remember that being announced), so Square most likely hasn't given up on the concept yet. They are sadly just very slow to react to feedback (considering that the players asking for proper gear rewards was kinda answered with the weapon upgrade in Aloalo, the third instance). The iteration we get in DT could be even better, once it releases and if CS3 manages to evolve the general concept. Definitely looking forward to that one.

[kaynide]

Just my very small two cents on the system; less the difficulty and more the stupid corner of a naming system the devs seem desperate to paint themselves into.

Like, "Let's play XX Hard" -> Is not actually Hard, it's just normal.

Ok, so Extreme is the hardest? No that's Savage? Why is "wild/brutal/uncontrolled" more difficult than "Very high or the highest; furthest from the center".

or "Let's play Variant dungeon!" Oh so that has random variations? Ah, no, that's "Deep Dungeon"?

What happens when they want some new difficulty? Savage Extreme? Ultimate Extreme? Ultimate Savage Extreme?

Why not just "Your Dungeon Here" plus Stars to designate. Or just a more generic category like "special raids" with things like TEA listed under, with what the actual content is in the content blurb instead of the story nonsense.

Weird names for the sake of weird names are just... meh.

FFXI had the same problems.

For example, in FFXI can you guess what "Monstrosity" is? If you thought it was pokemon style monster battles, no, that's called "Pankration". Monstrosity is where you are a monster and fight monsters. Unless it's against other players, in which case it's now called "Belligerency"

Oh, how about "Ballista"? If you guessed a PVP battle where you throw rocks at a basket, you'd be right. No there are no ballistas in Ballista you silly goose.