The difficulty of Normal Content in this game needs to increase.

[KeshLives]

Wouldn't that be a blessing lmao. Less laziness and casual and more "let's get to work" attitude

No. I don't play FFXIV to 'get to work'. I have a job and they PAY ME to go there. If you have nothing else to achieve in your life than the game, I guess I can understand it, but that's your problem, not mine.

[Ardeth]

Sorry it was having a stroke with this much text-Ardeth

I didn't mean it like if you don't like it, leave. I meant it is like if you want seriously challenging content and FFXIV isn't giving you that, then there's probably other games to fill that need. And maybe they won't, and you come back to FFXIV. The point is people shouldn't force a game to be something it's not. When I envision a more hardcore mmo environment, I think of Wow. Having played Wow since its beta, it's a style of hard content or quit that comes to mind. As a casual, once I beat the expansion leveling experience, I quit. I don't want to do pvp, mythic+ is too hard and gatekeepy, and raids aren't for me. I don't like pet battles, etc. So, to me, Wow is a dud of a game. Sure, I can get to make level, but once I get there, the game is dead. At least with this one, there's a ton of "casual" stuff for me to do. If they removed it all, I would quit. If they forced me into harder content, I would quit. There's a reason I play this. And if what people want is something more akin to Wow, well, there it is.

[KeshLives]

Oh no, my perfect efficient dungeon any% speedrun roulette ruined. How ever could I live myself

Yeah, I hate the obsession with speed, especially when it leaks into 'casual run' territory. I care not if it takes a few more minutes to complete a dungeon, but if we wipe 4 times because the tank pulled too much, because the healer said he should, and the run took an extra 15 minutes past what it could have done with single pull or double pulls, with no deaths...that will piss me off every time.

Let the tank handle what they can handle. If that's the whole dungeon *and they can do it w/o dying*, fine. But, when the tank starts dying more than once because of overpulling, it's time to slow down a little, do what you can handle, and finish the dungeon in a decent time, because with that 2nd death, your 'quest for speed' is done f'ed up.

[Ardeth]

Yeah, I hate the obsession with speed, especially when it leaks into 'casual run' territory. I care not if it takes a few more minutes to complete a dungeon, but if we wipe 4 times because the tank pulled too much, because the healer said he should, and the run took an extra 15 minutes past what it could have done with single pull or double pulls, with no deaths...that will piss me off every time.

Let the tank handle what they can handle. If that's the whole dungeon *and they can do it w/o dying*, fine. But, when the tank starts dying more than once because of overpulling, it's time to slow down a little, do what you can handle, and finish the dungeon in a decent time, because with that 2nd death, your 'quest for speed' is done f'ed up.

This is pretty much why I barely do runs as tanks or healers anymore. It's not that I can't wall to wall. It's just wall to wall causes too many issues. There's always someone who's not in on the plan and it makes everything take way longer. All because someone else decided how we have to play.

[RitsukoSonoda]

I just don't see the point of making the whole game "harder" because a handful of people want more of a challenge. It just seems incredibly selfish. Especially when there are harder games. You don't like FFXIV then maybe Wow is more your speed. Trust me it's not mine.

Thing is most games do actually get "harder" as you play them and progress. It's part of playing the game. The difference is that a lot of games achieve this without people really noticing. Most of the time people won't notice this at all unless there is a noticeable spike at some point in the game or if they stop playing for a long period of time without finishing the game then come back to it later.

[Ardeth]

Thing is most games do actually get "harder" as you play them and progress. It's part of playing the game. The difference is that a lot of games achieve this without people really noticing. Most of the time people won't notice this at all unless there is a noticeable spike at some point in the game or if they stop playing for a long period of time without finishing the game then come back to it later.

All I'm saying is there's a limit to what your average "casual" player will do. Some people do savage and some people never do extremes. Things getting gradually harder is fine, but there still is a skill ceiling. And knowing that is making the game for everyone. Unnerfed Orbonne is a good example of meaning well, but missing the point. The fact that people would quit when they got it off of their roulettes proves that is was a mistake. And they nerfed it and people stopped leaving. Everyone is different and we all have different skill levels. I'd just rather find a perfect balance while still giving people their hard content. Just don't force people to do it. And they don't. Orbonne was completely optional. Savage and extremes are completely optional. About the only thing that isn't optional is story and it's the easiest thing for a reason.

[KeshLives]

All I'm saying is there's a limit to what your average "casual" player will do.

And it isn't always about skill. I was a raider for years. I just won't put that time into it anymore. Not what I enjoy *anymore*. I play for the story, and I'm completely happy to learn what is needed to play 'normal' level content, and I'll do raid roulettes, too. I choose not to go into higher difficulties, because I have no patience for the kind of people that tend to cluster in those raids. Not that all are like that, but, enough.

As far as 'difficulty'...if 'some difficulty' is ok, why isn't Bahamut in the roulettes anymore? Hmm? (Yes, I 2-manned it with my son to see the story, as I came to XIV too late for it to be 'current content')

Anyway, I have no problem with the newer dungeons, and I very much enjoyed the flame dude trial, can't think of his name atm.

[Mistress_Irika]

I couldn't even get through a third of the thread. So I'm going to say what I need to say, the only couple of sentences being the only ones that needs to be read

TLR - No. Do not raise the difficulty. It will make everyone's lives worse.

This will be the 3rd expansion that I'm playing. As I'm currently watching from the Wolves Den I see things getting a whole lot easier from kits being more easier to use to trials being less punishing like the change that was made to Titan. The one thing that has stayed the same going through the expansion is that on a casual level people will play to the bare minimum, and it will continue to be accepted as so as long as they're able to get what they need done for the day. You can go to a different game, and you will not be able to escape that fact when it comes to all pve content regardless of what game is being played. Going against the grain is only making things harder overall.
Clear example doing multi pulls and expecting to heal them. I'll agree with some and say and that everyone should be able to do just that. However, that doesnt make it acceptable. If one's not ready everyone is wiping from the pulls. I got sick of dealing with wiping for no reason that I ended up carrying actual potions for the old content in order to attempt to carry the group should the tank and healer die from that pull. I did not feel like dying over a failed pull anymore. There's no way that I should be playing frontlines in a pve dungeon (That's how i look at it, because I used to play blue dps in pvp last expansion) over a mistake that could be avoided. Safe to say that I dont have to deal with it anymore, because i refuse to do roulettes for the sole purpose of failed mulit pulls.
Point of the matter: Don't tell people how to play. If you have to up your dps in order to speed things quicker so be it. I would like for people to get better. However, if that's not the goal for some people then they're not going to do it. There's nothing you can do about it, especially if you're running things solo queue. Just get through it and be done with it.

[Gemina]

As far as 'difficulty'...if 'some difficulty' is ok, why isn't Bahamut in the roulettes anymore? Hmm? (Yes, I 2-manned it with my son to see the story, as I came to XIV too late for it to be 'current content')

BCoB was prior to the dev's decision to release NM raids so players could experience the story. Alexander was the first to do this. Putting Coils in the raid roulette would sync all participants down to 50, and they will have to do it under a difficulty not intended for casual players.

[Raven2014]

As far as 'difficulty'...if 'some difficulty' is ok, why isn't Bahamut in the roulettes anymore? Hmm? (Yes, I 2-manned it with my son to see the story, as I came to XIV too late for it to be 'current content')

"Any more" implied it had at one point in the past part of the roulette. So the easy answer here is because it never was. There is no "easy" version of Coil for it to be in roulette. You will essentially put people in a savage level fight. And while the fights in general requires less precision and reflex, they're no thing to be scoff at in term of mechanic and require probably more coordination then current raid, even in the early fight. For example:

- The very first boss requires a party split and DPS coordination.
- The snake 2 mechanic you see P8S that PF still wipe to "ALL THE TIME" is a watered down version of the shriek mechanic first seen in the 2nd boss of second coil.
- And Phoenix is ... yeah. If anyone think P3S is bad, that because they didn't do or remember Coil Phoenix in all its glory.

If Coil roullette is a thing, it'll make Ivalice raid looks like picnic.