What dps/utility buttons old or new would you add to your healer?

[ASkellington]

It's been mentioned, as running fates or potd or even solo NSQ in some cases as an AST can be misery even WHM is less painful. I don't see how it would "step on RDM toes" , I think it is a fair question to ask, however I would point out that summoners can raise - but they aren't healers, and swiftcast isn't unique to healers.

That's not the same. Double Cast and Quick Cast are play styles very similar to one another with Double Cast giving AST added effects to the spell that has been double casted. Where as Raise/Swiftcast are just spells. They aren't a playstyle or identity if you would.

And honestly I don't like Double Cast anyway. It only affects 3 spells we have access to (in both PvP and PVE), Malefic being Double Cast is w/e. Gravity? What, SE is going to give us a Bind/Heavy on our aoe? Yeah no. And A. Benefic is stupid. Why would I 1. Want the HoT BEFORE the Shield, I'd rather have it the reverse and 2. Have it at all when I could have Noct Sect back?

[IDontPetLalas]

That's not the same. Double Cast and Quick Cast are play styles very similar to one another with Double Cast giving AST added effects to the spell that has been double casted. Where as Raise/Swiftcast are just spells. They aren't a playstyle or identity if you would.

And honestly I don't like Double Cast anyway. It only affects 3 spells we have access to (in both PvP and PVE), Malefic being Double Cast is w/e. Gravity? What, SE is going to give us a Bind/Heavy on our aoe? Yeah no. And A. Benefic is stupid. Why would I 1. Want the HoT BEFORE the Shield, I'd rather have it the reverse and 2. Have it at all when I could have Noct Sect back?

Hold on a moment, I didn't say "they are the same" regarding their effect, however while you may regard them as "just spells", you may have already forgotten that summoner came extremely close to lose raise when it was reworked and it wasn't a simple or easy to decision to keep it.

Secondly, it could happen that double cast makes it into PVE, I don't see why a variation of it couldn't- that doesn't mean that (a) it has to be a straight copy/paste of the PVP variation or that (b) IF it did, that other changes couldn't happen as well.

[Nizzi]

It's been mentioned, as running fates or potd or even solo NSQ in some cases as an AST can be misery even WHM is less painful. I don't see how it would "step on RDM toes" , I think it is a fair question to ask, however I would point out that summoners can raise - but they aren't healers, and swiftcast isn't unique to healers.

Honestly, with how much RDM steps on the toes of healers, and how much healers have had taken from them compared to DPS jobs, I really don't care if they pull stuff from other jobs identities to give it to the healers. I don't care if WHM starts to step on BLM's toes, or AST with RDM, etc. I want SE to make them unique, diverse and meaningful.

[ASkellington]

Hold on a moment, I didn't say "they are the same" regarding their effect, however while you may regard them as "just spells", you may have already forgotten that summoner came extremely close to lose raise when it was reworked and it wasn't a simple or easy to decision to keep it.

Secondly, it could happen that double cast makes it into PVE, I don't see why a variation of it couldn't- that doesn't mean that (a) it has to be a straight copy/paste of the PVP variation or that (b) IF it did, that other changes couldn't happen as well.

That isn't what I said. You compared Swiftcast and Raise, mere spells to Double/Quick Casts which is a trait and more of a playstyle. Swiftcast and Raise aren't playstyles. They don't change the way a class is played. The former is a Caster role ability and the latter isn't because only BLM doesn't have access to it (every other Caster, which Healers are, do).

Second, even if Double Cast affected more than the 3 spells, the effects it currently has don't inspire anything fun to me as an AST main (which was the reason why I mentioned the 3 spells anyway) and the alternative give earlier (which was to enhance the effect of the next spell cast w/e that may be - potency for example) doesn't either. I don't like Double Cast, is my point.

[ForsakenRoe]

I think 'Double Cast' (the PVP AST one) and 'Doublecast' (the RDM trait) are actually kinda different enough for it not to be 'step on other's toes'. So, for RDM, the point of the Doublecast is to make the 5s cast times be 0s instead, so you aren't losing GCDs casing a spell that is 2x as long to cast as the others. The AST one is more like Continuation, where, due to having limited charges of it, you're forced to make decisions about what to spend it on. Do you Double Cast a heal to heal more, or Gravity to try and do big damage/CC the enemy?

If we had AST get a system where it could instantly repeat a previously cast spell with an oGCD, maybe call it Quicken (cos time magic), perhaps that could be interesting? Most would be dumped on Malefic, sure, but perhaps there's other ways to incentivize using it on other things too. Maybe something where using Gravity on a single target allows the Quicken'd Gravity followup to deal bonus damage, making it a gain to use Gravity in single target? Though it's all kinda moot to me personally, as the whole point of Double Cast in PVP is that it's a fast-paced tool requiring fast-paced decision making, in a more fast-paced gamemode. In PVE it'd be planned out where to use it and what to use it on, defeating the point of the skill.

I'd rather have the cards be interesting and have different effects. Could lean into the 'deck of sixty' and have Minor Arcana draw a random card of those sixty, just have 6 effects and each 'number' be the strength, so a 3 of Cups is 'deals DOT for 15s to enemy, 30p per tick' and a 8 of Cups is 'deals DOT for 15s to enemy, 80 per tick'. Then Swords can be direct damage, or Crowns can be 'applies a barrier that retaliated for X damage when struck' or whatever. Could even have one be Astrodyne's self-haste. 'Grants the AST 10% spellspeed, plus X based on the card's face value', yeh that could be kinda cool. Like a self-contained Old Arrow. Heck, if 'balance' (the gameplay kind, not the card) is such an issue, make it flat damage instead of potency. [number] of Swords dealing [number] x 1000 exact damage is not going to make or break the 'balance' of the game when Malefics hit for over 7k per cast as is.

The ranges can also be adjusted. For example, IDK instead of doing [number] x 1000, we could make it do [base amount], plus [number] x 500, or 250, or whatever value we choose. SO, let's make the value the Sword card's face number affect it at a factor of 5 potency, and the base amount of the card be 250p, equal to one Malefic. A 2 of Swords deals 250 (one Malefic), and also 2 x 5, for a total of 260p. Likewise, a 9 of Swords would be 250 base, plus 9 x 5, for a total of 295. As long as these damage swings are not attached to healing it should be fine, I think. Nothing quite like dying because 'oops my card low-rolled sorry'. The numbers don't have to be exactly like this though it's just to show that 'actually the values can be adjusted so damage-variance isn't a massive issue', and in a state of the game where 'oh you wiped on a DPS check you previously beat, because you didn't crit a single DoubleDown this time, get fked kid', I ain't taking any complaining about 'this would cause huge damage variance'. We already have potential variance on AST of up to 2000p (and beyond, in longer fights), due to 'No lords' vs 'all the lords'

Oh yeh, also we can bring in Sleeve Draw as a modifier to 'instantly redraw the minor Arcana, but as a Lord of it's kind', to make sure the card is always good and strong for burst window. In fact if it was tuned right damagewise, we could have Minor Arcana be a GCD every like 15s to break up the Malefic spam!

[Renathras]

Honestly, PvP AST's Double Cast doesn't feel like RDM's. It feels more like BLM's Triple Cast or like Swiftcast, with benefits (since the second casted spell has some differences vs the base spell). The fact it has to be manually activated and duplicates the prior spell, I feel like it's different enough from RDM to not be a toe stepping thing. It might be good to give it a slightly different name to avoid confusion, though, like Twincast or something. But no one complains about Reprise (RDM weak melee skill that is a slight damage loss GCD rolling 5/5 Mana spender emergency movement tool when Enchanted) and Reprisal (the Tank Role AOE damage reduction/mitigation ability), so it would probably be fine either way.

Bonus points, since it's an ability kind of like Eukrasia, it can be used to potentially free up hotbar spaces, and AST (which is among the most bloated, if not THE most bloated, Job in the game) having a little better hotbar economy wouldn't be such a bad thing. Though depending on how it's done it could be hit or miss, I suppose... Like Holos could get Aspected Holos as a dualcast (as it's a button you press less often), but...that could prevent you just using the one GCD for the AOE HoT. So it would have to be done carefully to not just end up being annoying.

EDIT:

Why does every thread get derailed by renathras and people bickering with him about a valid but irrelevant to current thread topic with increasingly large posts.
sigh

I'm not seeing much for dps on Ast. I find that quite curious since the one dot/one nuke was an issue with ast since sb. The common sentiment being the cards were fun but the lack of dps buttons sucked, hence very few players doing solo things like fates or potd as ast.

Yet pvp ast has effectively rdm's doublecast but better. In a pve scenario, would that be stepping on rdm's toes a bit? the again i suppose that would be fair since rdm is 2 buttons from being a fully functional healer (aoe heal+esuna)

Because people like to bicker. But that aside, I'm not the one derailing things, I'm generally talking about the topics themselves and things pertinent to them, and some people don't like to admit things that might weaken their argument (even when those things are true) and so would rather argue about them. Other times, though, it's just genuine differences of opinion and that's not a bad thing.

Probably the reason AST's rotation is mentioned the least is because AST is considered busy enough to not need a more complex rotation to be interesting where most of the other Healers don't have as much going on with them. AST has among the busiest burst in the game, and Drawing, targeting, and Playing cards, while still oGCDs like (most commonly used) heals are used fairly frequently through the fight. So to the people bored with Dia + GlareGlareGlareGlareGlare..., they feel Combust+MalificMalificDrawMalificPlayMalificMalificMalificDrawMalificMalificMalificPlayMalific is a bit more broken up and interesting. Even the other Healers with weaves like SCH with Energy Drain or WHM's Asize are kind of fire and forget, whereas the Cards actually require targeting and a bit of thought (if trying to do it right), even when used outside of burst phases.

Additionally, as you note, AST is historically slimmed down on its DPS rotation. So unlike SCH, and to a FAAAAR lesser extent WHM, it never had additional DPS buttons for people to miss and want added back or have (rose tinted) glasses of exciting gameplay with. (Of course, neither does SGE...but that doesn't prevent complaints that it should have them anyway...)

In short: People feel AST has enough going on to not be as boring and don't feel that it lost something (in terms of DPS rotation) that it needs back.

The AST complaints, instead, are about the loss of dAST/nAST (mostly nAST since current AST is basically dAST with benefits) and the loss of more unique and interesting Card effects - going back to that "miss and want added back" thing - and that it's a bit awkward and possibly a bit TOO busy in the burst phase, mainly because of how targeting works.

.

I answered what I thought of Dual Cast (not to be confused with Dualcast) above. Also, it's not really "doublecst but better". They're...different. RDM Dualcast is rotational and can be used (outside of its rotation) for Verraise. PvP AST's Dual Cast can only be used to cast a single spell a second time, and changes its effect at least slightly.

[ForsakenRoe]

There is also Meditation/Meditate (SAM/MNK), and Intervention/Intervene (both on PLD), similar names aren't the issue, the gameplay and function is, but even then as mentioned, RDM dualcast and PVP-AST dualcast are different in implementation

[Xelanar]

Stella. Give me back Stella. My Stella. Now ^_^.
Because we all know the true potency of all skills lies within their animation.

Oh and the old card system. Pretty please.

[Vinal211]

Stella. Give me back Stella. My Stella. Now ^_^.
Because we all know the true potency of all skills lies within their animation.

Oh and the old card system. Pretty please.

funnily enough, the document I've been working on with all of my ideas for changing around AST does semi bring back the old card system, but with Spire being a regen effect instead of recovering tp. oh, and actually there is another idea i was thinking about too.

AST cards are basically Eorzea tarot cards, so why not have an ability that "Reverses" the effect, similar to how real life tarot have both an upright and reversed meaning for positive and negative? with the old card system, it would be something like 2 cards dealing damage, 2 cards being debuffs, and 2 cards being dot's, and bringing spread back could make it AoE effects. keep the current system of gaining a stamp every time you use a specific set of cards. using the reversed versions gives you a reversed stamp, and collecting 3 (either of just 1 or of all 3) gives you access to a strong AoE attack?

[IDontPetLalas]

funnily enough, the document I've been working on with all of my ideas for changing around AST does semi bring back the old card system, but with Spire being a regen effect instead of recovering tp. oh, and actually there is another idea i was thinking about too.

AST cards are basically Eorzea tarot cards, so why not have an ability that "Reverses" the effect, similar to how real life tarot have both an upright and reversed meaning for positive and negative? with the old card system, it would be something like 2 cards dealing damage, 2 cards being debuffs, and 2 cards being dot's, and bringing spread back could make it AoE effects. keep the current system of gaining a stamp every time you use a specific set of cards. using the reversed versions gives you a reversed stamp, and collecting 3 (either of just 1 or of all 3) gives you access to a strong AoE attack?

I never was an AST under the old system (pre SHb) so perhaps I completely misunderstand how this would work

However, I have a few misgivings - One point is that a "strong aoe attack" is of limited benefit - granted good if you have multiple mobs but otherwise? Second point - to summarize- dot management (personally not a fan) - now this is RNG as well, spread of those dots (limited use again).

Personally I would prefer that dot management and spread (bane) - if brought back- was brought back to SCH, AST could have its own skills. With SCH,RNG doesn't factor into dot management or the AOE use of dots, I miss having them under SCH.