What dps/utility buttons old or new would you add to your healer?

[fulminating]

Off the top of my head, I'd say every fight has at least 4 body checks this tier (p8sp1 and p8sp2 being counted separately).

It really doesn't matter what spammable non-damage button they give to consume aetherflow it can only be a waster or scholar will be a mandatory pick. There is no inbetween. Look at dark knight - one extra mit and a boatload of damage and it's in every top clear.

I don't understand your objection. On warrior you're either maximising gauge generation/playing chicken with storm's eye or you have room for improvement. On summoner you're either "summoning" primals or doing it wrong. On machinist you're either reassembling drill 1/2/3 or doing it wrong. Surely having a way to demonstrate competence/mastery/familiarity with the fight and/or scholar kit is a good thing?

I wouldn't say you've shown above how it would play the same, quite the opposite in fact. The loss of a "reward" system for good management/play/party not eating crayons is absent.

I think ascribing motivation to the devs is a fool's errand, particularly from before they put little explanations on the job pages.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]Surely having a way to demonstrate competence/mastery/familiarity with the fight and/or scholar kit is a good thing?

I wouldn't say you've shown above how it would play the same, quite the opposite in fact. The loss of a "reward" system for good management/play/party not eating crayons is absent.

I'm at that point where I think the dev just want to remove every single way a player can make mistake. Can't feel 'bad' when there's no mistake to be made, right? /s

[SargeTheSeagull]

I'm at that point where I think the dev just want to remove every single way a player can make mistake. Can't feel 'bad' when there's no mistake to be made, right? /s

I'm fairly certain this is their actual reasoning.

[Silver-Strider]

You're using circular reasoning

My reasoning is based on what the game demands of a player. The game demands X amounts of healing and Y amounts of damage. If I can hit X with this series of tools, then the other tools are extra. SCH can hit X without using Aetherflow skills more than is necessary. The only thing about X is that it there are other variables that determine its value. If people are screwing up, not hitting mitigation, etc. than X becomes bigger and thus those extra tools become required to clear but at the same time, there's a breaking point where if X hits a certain threshold, you won't be able to meet the demands of Y.

Both SCH and SGE can clear the content of the game just fine. SCH does more damage though while still meeting the requirements of healing. Why is that? Maybe because SCH, despite their "handicap" is just stronger and better than SGE, which even the Devs conceded to when they had to buff Holos on SGE and even then it's still behind SCH.

That's not even remotely true. Most fights have several mechanics that if anyone screws up, it's a wipe, but quite a few that if someone screws up, it's not.

We can go back and forth on this matter all day honestly. For every mechanic like Proto-Carbs charge, there are mechanics like Snakes in P8S that can wipe the party. Are there mechanics that you can recover from? Yes, I never claimed otherwise, else I'd have stated 10/10 mechanical failures resulted in a wipe but do those recoverable mechanics require the use of Aetherflow are an entirely different matter. Assuming the person isn't in danger of dying, Aetherpact would work for getting them patched up just fine.

Not to be snarky, but "Do you even Balance, bro?"

Yes, but even they commented on the drawbacks of the opener, which I mentioned with delaying Aetherflow usage. You lose out on potential uses of Aetherflow meaning there are times when you have to use Energy Drain outside of burst windows.

YOU can say "herp derp overhealing!!" all you want, people would have been happy with those options since there is no time a shield, regen, or mitigation on a Tank isn't useful if it's costing you nothing and allows you to free up other oGCDs for your overall healing plan.

Yes, because no one complains about how much meaningless over bloated crap healers have already /s

Considering your view is the one that says removing Energy Drain wouldn't break the job, despite the evidence to the contrary, I believe it is best that you drop it.

[Recon1o6]

Why does every thread get derailed by renathras and people bickering with him about a valid but irrelevant to current thread topic with increasingly large posts.
sigh

I'm not seeing much for dps on Ast. I find that quite curious since the one dot/one nuke was an issue with ast since sb. The common sentiment being the cards were fun but the lack of dps buttons sucked, hence very few players doing solo things like fates or potd as ast.

Yet pvp ast has effectively rdm's doublecast but better. In a pve scenario, would that be stepping on rdm's toes a bit? the again i suppose that would be fair since rdm is 2 buttons from being a fully functional healer (aoe heal+esuna)

[IDontPetLalas]

Why does every thread get derailed by renathras and people bickering with him about a valid but irrelevant to current thread topic with increasingly large posts.
sigh

I'm not seeing much for dps on Ast. I find that quite curious since the one dot/one nuke was an issue with ast since sb. The common sentiment being the cards were fun but the lack of dps buttons sucked, hence very few players doing solo things like fates or potd as ast.

Yet pvp ast has effectively rdm's doublecast but better. In a pve scenario, would that be stepping on rdm's toes a bit? the again i suppose that would be fair since rdm is 2 buttons from being a fully functional healer (aoe heal+esuna)

It's been mentioned, as running fates or potd or even solo NSQ in some cases as an AST can be misery even WHM is less painful. I don't see how it would "step on RDM toes" , I think it is a fair question to ask, however I would point out that summoners can raise - but they aren't healers, and swiftcast isn't unique to healers.

[ASkellington]

It's been mentioned, as running fates or potd or even solo NSQ in some cases as an AST can be misery even WHM is less painful. I don't see how it would "step on RDM toes" , I think it is a fair question to ask, however I would point out that summoners can raise - but they aren't healers, and swiftcast isn't unique to healers.

That's not the same. Double Cast and Quick Cast are play styles very similar to one another with Double Cast giving AST added effects to the spell that has been double casted. Where as Raise/Swiftcast are just spells. They aren't a playstyle or identity if you would.

And honestly I don't like Double Cast anyway. It only affects 3 spells we have access to (in both PvP and PVE), Malefic being Double Cast is w/e. Gravity? What, SE is going to give us a Bind/Heavy on our aoe? Yeah no. And A. Benefic is stupid. Why would I 1. Want the HoT BEFORE the Shield, I'd rather have it the reverse and 2. Have it at all when I could have Noct Sect back?

[IDontPetLalas]

That's not the same. Double Cast and Quick Cast are play styles very similar to one another with Double Cast giving AST added effects to the spell that has been double casted. Where as Raise/Swiftcast are just spells. They aren't a playstyle or identity if you would.

And honestly I don't like Double Cast anyway. It only affects 3 spells we have access to (in both PvP and PVE), Malefic being Double Cast is w/e. Gravity? What, SE is going to give us a Bind/Heavy on our aoe? Yeah no. And A. Benefic is stupid. Why would I 1. Want the HoT BEFORE the Shield, I'd rather have it the reverse and 2. Have it at all when I could have Noct Sect back?

Hold on a moment, I didn't say "they are the same" regarding their effect, however while you may regard them as "just spells", you may have already forgotten that summoner came extremely close to lose raise when it was reworked and it wasn't a simple or easy to decision to keep it.

Secondly, it could happen that double cast makes it into PVE, I don't see why a variation of it couldn't- that doesn't mean that (a) it has to be a straight copy/paste of the PVP variation or that (b) IF it did, that other changes couldn't happen as well.

[ASkellington]

Hold on a moment, I didn't say "they are the same" regarding their effect, however while you may regard them as "just spells", you may have already forgotten that summoner came extremely close to lose raise when it was reworked and it wasn't a simple or easy to decision to keep it.

Secondly, it could happen that double cast makes it into PVE, I don't see why a variation of it couldn't- that doesn't mean that (a) it has to be a straight copy/paste of the PVP variation or that (b) IF it did, that other changes couldn't happen as well.

That isn't what I said. You compared Swiftcast and Raise, mere spells to Double/Quick Casts which is a trait and more of a playstyle. Swiftcast and Raise aren't playstyles. They don't change the way a class is played. The former is a Caster role ability and the latter isn't because only BLM doesn't have access to it (every other Caster, which Healers are, do).

Second, even if Double Cast affected more than the 3 spells, the effects it currently has don't inspire anything fun to me as an AST main (which was the reason why I mentioned the 3 spells anyway) and the alternative give earlier (which was to enhance the effect of the next spell cast w/e that may be - potency for example) doesn't either. I don't like Double Cast, is my point.

[Nizzi]

It's been mentioned, as running fates or potd or even solo NSQ in some cases as an AST can be misery even WHM is less painful. I don't see how it would "step on RDM toes" , I think it is a fair question to ask, however I would point out that summoners can raise - but they aren't healers, and swiftcast isn't unique to healers.

Honestly, with how much RDM steps on the toes of healers, and how much healers have had taken from them compared to DPS jobs, I really don't care if they pull stuff from other jobs identities to give it to the healers. I don't care if WHM starts to step on BLM's toes, or AST with RDM, etc. I want SE to make them unique, diverse and meaningful.