What dps/utility buttons old or new would you add to your healer?

[Renathras]

Yes, those are some excellent ideas, to be honest I had just focussed on AST for the moment that post was just too long to wade through after work today - at least I get paid to analyze that at work.

Sorry...it's a topic I am passionate about, at least.

As I said, AST is more complicated to me for quite a few reasons. I'm also not sure I explained it all that well. By "like Mudras", I guess I mean where you have the three buttons and you use what you want then hit Play to lock in the effect (and apply it). In theory I suppose there could be some "combining" mechanics in the future, but I was more thinking "buffs laid out before you and you pick which one you need", since I feel like that's the reason we can't have neat and niche Cards in the game, because what if you get them at a time they aren't useful? That's what led to the Balance fishing in the past, which the Dev team seems to want to avoid. I'm not sure it's the best solution, but it's the one that came to me at the time.

[EDIT: And the Lord/Lady/Jester of Crowns Minor Arcana retains that RNG feel as well as working with Astrodyne, so AST still has that going for it, unless people just want to dump that entirely.]

CO and CI is more because I'm not sure you'd need them if Aspected Helios and Aspected Benefic are providing the same buffs (including Neutral Sect buffing them further), but like I said, those 8 were just the "we need to choose at least 4 to remove to have AST be button neutral with today", which may not actually be a concern, but if it is (since I did add several more buttons), those 8 would probably top the list of what to remove/combine.

I take it you liked/agreed with at least a fair bit of the rest?

.

The SCH ones were basically giving it some more buttons, but not just a boring "here's another DoT on a shorter CD that you have to...press more often! Isn't that great?!", which I find kind of...a total waste of design.

I like the idea of a stacking buff, of Bane and Fester to spread/burst them, and with Biolysis stacking to 3 + Bio + Miasma + Miasma 2, that gives you a total of, effectively, six DoTs to manage, not including Shadowflare (which is a field effect rather than a DoT). Maybe Energy Drain rather than Fester could be what refreshes the DoT duration, or maybe we could just remove ED/have ED upgrade into Fester (would save another button and, in practice, the only time you'd be using ED is if you needed MP from it or couldn't get DoTs up on a target before it became untargetable, making ED a possible damage gain; but those are niche enough removing ED and just having the rotation use Fester would be fine as long as it had a short/no CD)

I don't mind "moar DoTs!" if those DoTs actually have some character and interactions that make them all more interesting.

[ty_taurus]

Sorry...it's a topic I am passionate about, at least.

Some details about the lore of the AST's arcanum deck, FYI, it's not a Jester, but a Knave in the deck. This is from the Encyclopedia Eorzea:

"The Deck of Sixty is most commonly divided into two distinct groups, the major arcana and the minor arcana. The six major arcana--the Spire, the Ewer, the Bole, the Arrow, the Balance, and the Spear--are said to represent the heavens and thus most often utilized in astrological and divinatory pursuits. Conversely, the minor arcana are believed to represent that land and its people, and feature six suits, each containing six cards numbered 1 through 6 (the pip cards0, and three face cards, for a total of fifty-four. Each suit possesses a corresponding element, class, and faculty, as well as direct tie to one of the six major arcana--all characteristics that can be employed (at the teller's discretion) during the scrying of a fortune."

A list of the six suits in the following order of detail:
Suit | Alternate | Faculty | Class | Element | Major Arcana

Crowns | Wreaths | Dominion | Nobility | Lightning | The Spire
Cups | Hearts | Emotion | Clergy | Water || The Ewer
Rings | Pentacles | Possession | Merchants | Earth | The Bole
Knives | Swords | Cognition | Military | Wind | The Arrow
Staves | Batons | Volition | Smallfolk | Fire | The Balance
Irons | Chains | Contrition | Prisoners | Ice | The Spear

"Face cards consist of the 'knave,' the 'lord,' and the highest-ranking 'lady.' When used in conjunction with the pip cards, their numerical values are 7, 8, and 9 respectively."

There's more, but this is I think the stuff not well known about. I'd love to integrate more aspects of this, such as having a Lord of Staves, or a Lady of Cups, rather than just the Crowns, and also include the Knave, but it gets convoluted very quickly. This is shared more just because I think it's interesting, not information that's easy to come by, and that there's a lot of worthwhile lore to try and build out of here, not to try and "um, actually" the reference to the Jester.

[Renathras]

There's more, but this is I think the stuff not well known about. I'd love to integrate more aspects of this, such as having a Lord of Staves, or a Lady of Cups, rather than just the Crowns, and also include the Knave, but it gets convoluted very quickly. This is shared more just because I think it's interesting, not information that's easy to come by, and that there's a lot of worthwhile lore to try and build out of here, not to try and "um, actually" the reference to the Jester.

No offense taken at all! Jester was just the first thing that came to mind as a Joker or that FFXV line (probably among Noctis best, even if it IS quite ironic considering Ardyn is arguably the rightful king...): "Off my throne, jester; the king sits there." I suppose Jack or Knave would be the other face card.

Also, I love lore and don't have the EE (much as I'd like to get one), so always appreciate a bit more.

As far as the idea, I was more thinking of a third thing to make that (since it's the "new RNG element") feel a bit more RNG, and also to provide a third option for a third seal for Astrodyne. So Knave instead of Jester is perfectly suitable.

So, what did you think, btw? That's the most detail I've put yet into Healer Job reworks...

[IDontPetLalas]

Some details about the lore of the AST's arcanum deck, FYI, it's not a Jester, but a Knave in the deck. This is from the Encyclopedia Eorzea:

"The Deck of Sixty is most commonly divided into two distinct groups, the major arcana and the minor arcana. The six major arcana--the Spire, the Ewer, the Bole, the Arrow, the Balance, and the Spear--are said to represent the heavens and thus most often utilized in astrological and divinatory pursuits. Conversely, the minor arcana are believed to represent that land and its people, and feature six suits, each containing six cards numbered 1 through 6 (the pip cards0, and three face cards, for a total of fifty-four. Each suit possesses a corresponding element, class, and faculty, as well as direct tie to one of the six major arcana--all characteristics that can be employed (at the teller's discretion) during the scrying of a fortune."

A list of the six suits in the following order of detail:
Suit | Alternate | Faculty | Class | Element | Major Arcana

*snip*

"Face cards consist of the 'knave,' the 'lord,' and the highest-ranking 'lady.' When used in conjunction with the pip cards, their numerical values are 7, 8, and 9 respectively."

There's more, but this is I think the stuff not well known about. I'd love to integrate more aspects of this, such as having a Lord of Staves, or a Lady of Cups, rather than just the Crowns, and also include the Knave, but it gets convoluted very quickly. This is shared more just because I think it's interesting, not information that's easy to come by, and that there's a lot of worthwhile lore to try and build out of here, not to try and "um, actually" the reference to the Jester.

I find lore interesting from a conceptual aspect, but I do not want a job held back due to what reads well due to lore or pretty animations. Yes, I like sparkly stars and stories however I would give that up in an instant for a job that has better gameplay- which I did.

I would not find a convoluted card system, what sounds "interesting" on paper becomes less so in practise when (at least for myself) cards are part of the job, the fun is spent dealing cards, healing and doing damage, and their is no major fascination in dealing cards. It's like asking a tank to get excited about rotating their mitigation - they're happy that they have good mitigation skills, they don't expect to spend all of their time looking at them or thinking about them.

There are some simpler things that could be done for QOL changes (remove some useless skills), and some more dramatic ones - such as bring back Nocturnal sect (ie. basically SHb AST). I could also propose allowing ASTs to change sects while in combat. Give AST another DPS skill or combo action.

I would also really be a proponent of restoring SCH skills or giving them alternatives, and I would say that each healer can make a good case for changes.

[Duskane]

SCH should really get what SMN lost in terms of DoT bane,Fester etc etc
and WHM should have a similar cycle Through elements gameplay like RDM and BLM

[Iedarus]

SCH should really get what SMN lost in terms of DoT bane,Fester etc etc
and WHM should have a similar cycle Through elements gameplay like RDM and BLM

This. If SE is unable to think of more original mechanics to balance, why not have White Mage mirror Black Mage? Unprecedented, I know; it's not like the lore states they were locked in a war or anything unless you really want to believe the White Mages fended off the Black Mages' meteors, blizzards and lightning storms with their dinky little Glares. Instead they decided to compare apples to oranges and try to have White Mage compete with Astrologian when they are in two completely different planes. Have Astro be the handy utility regen focused healer and have White Mage be the stationary healer that heals like a god and hits like a freight train with Quake, Tornado and Holy (if it was made to be a finisher instead of a spammy blinding AoE) if they stand inside their ley lines.

[Renathras]

This. If SE is unable to think of more original mechanics to balance, why not have White Mage mirror Black Mage? Unprecedented, I know; it's not like the lore states they were locked in a war or anything unless you really want to believe the White Mages fended off the Black Mages' meteors, blizzards and lightning storms with their dinky little Glares. Instead they decided to compare apples to oranges and try to have White Mage compete with Astrologian when they are in two completely different planes. Have Astro be the handy utility regen focused healer and have White Mage be the stationary healer that heals like a god and hits like a freight train with Quake, Tornado and Holy (if it was made to be a finisher instead of a spammy blinding AoE) if they stand inside their ley lines.

To be fair, being in a war is usually the result of having opposing interests, not alignment of techniques. In the lore, the White Mages of Amdapor's major power was Golemancy, and they fought against Mhach's Voidsent with their stone golems. In a bit of irony, the flying head mount you can get from PotD is probably the most White Mage-y mount in the game - the Unicorn you befriended as a Conjurer, but the flying head's description is that E-Una-Kotor created it from some of the stone of PotD in an effort to better understand the guardian golems from the Lost City of Amdapor. Indeed, Mhach's most powerful techniques were not Blizzards and Thunder spells, but things like Xenoglosy and Voidsent summoning.

Despite a lot of the community mentioning the spells, we have no lore that really supports White Mages using a ton of Quake, Tornado, etc magics. Quake is used by Xande, who isn't a WHM and existed well before Amdapor. A lot of elder and eldrich spellcasters use spells like that, but not really a lot of White Mages in the lore.

Stationary Healer with more and longer cast times that's more of a caster would be kind of neat if it weren't for the combat/fight design demanding lots of movement...

[Iedarus]

To be fair, being in a war is usually the result of having opposing interests, not alignment of techniques. In the lore, the White Mages of Amdapor's major power was Golemancy, and they fought against Mhach's Voidsent with their stone golems. In a bit of irony, the flying head mount you can get from PotD is probably the most White Mage-y mount in the game - the Unicorn you befriended as a Conjurer, but the flying head's description is that E-Una-Kotor created it from some of the stone of PotD in an effort to better understand the guardian golems from the Lost City of Amdapor. Indeed, Mhach's most powerful techniques were not Blizzards and Thunder spells, but things like Xenoglosy and Voidsent summoning.

Despite a lot of the community mentioning the spells, we have no lore that really supports White Mages using a ton of Quake, Tornado, etc magics. Quake is used by Xande, who isn't a WHM and existed well before Amdapor. A lot of elder and eldrich spellcasters use spells like that, but not really a lot of White Mages in the lore.

Stationary Healer with more and longer cast times that's more of a caster would be kind of neat if it weren't for the combat/fight design demanding lots of movement...

Like I said, if Yoshi is unable to think of new mechanics, just mimic existing ones. As it stands, mimicking BLM would be the most logical course of action and would work with WHM being the GCD focused healer. As for movement, well, it wouldn't make much sense to worry about fights demanding lots of movement when Yoshi's golden child BLM exists. Quite frankly I'm gobsmacked that he hasn't swooped in yet since the job has been struggling in this meta at least compared to melees. I digress though; WHM as it stands in this game has been effectively merged with Geomancer with its druidic origins and starting out with earth and wind magic along with water. Thus, assuming the devs have no plans to add Geomancer in the future, it would make sense for Tornado, Quake and Flood to go to White Mage.

[Semirhage]

Anything that doesn't leave any of the healers in their current skill-ceiling-pancaked-against-the-floor state. Working toward getting better at playing a job should never make it actively more boring to play. "Find ways to spam Glare even more times" is an unacceptable "goal".

[ASkellington]

Nocturnal sect (able to be used in combat). Neutral removed in its place.