Have we seen the last of them?

[Kranel_San]

A thought came to me while sitting and reading some topics here in the lore section. Have we seen the last of the Ascians?
While we have defeated the unsundered and Zodiark is no more. There are still a few Red-masked ascians somewhere around (Four or five) and possibly a number of the black-masked minions.
It's currently impossible to follow the original plan of restoring the ancient world to how it used to be, but as in the case of Fandaniel, are we sure they'll cause no more harm to the world? In fact, I find it strange that none of the remaining has reacted to Fandaniel's madness during the prelude and main events of EW, which really makes me ask what they're doing or if they're even on the source.
I could imagine some few decided to start a new life somewhere in the source or its shards (Possibly somewhere away from the "Ascian slayer") or that they decided to use their powers and knowledge to be somewhat minor villains somewhere and content with that (Money and power type of villain)

While I'm sure some people would prefer to have a break from the ascian organization and the ancients plot as a whole, I'd wish to see some sort of epilogue that marks their end completely, but I guess SE might be reserving the remaining for future content.

[SaitoHikari]

I suspect at least one of the remaining Ascians might decide to help out. While Emet-Selch was out building societies only to engineer calamities, there might be another in some corner of the world who is legitimately uplifting societies, just to see if they can. Probably the advocate of the arts.

I have thought that it was strange that none of the other remaining Ascians would have tried to stop Fandaniel, because none of them were likely on board with his plans. Or if they did, Fandaniel may have already taken out a few off-screen. It could be possible that one gave into despair after learning of Zodiark's demise, and could have been transformed into a Blasphemy in some distant land (or maybe even another shard). Just because the First was unaffected by the End Days doesn't mean all of them were spared from its effects, as the status of the remaining shards is completely unknown.

[WhiteArchmage]

Oof, this might get a bit rambly, apologies in advance.

We know we have either 2 or 4 overlords left (depending on whether you believe that Gaius slew Altima and Deudalaphon or just their host bodies). So CBU3 has 2/4 Ascians left over to play with if they so choose. This is the important caveat. Considering how trigger happy CBU3 has been in respect to the overlords (we offed a grand total of four during the course of 5.x), I wouldn't be surprised, though a tad disappointed, if they chose to dispose of Halmarut and Pashtarot off-screen in the remaining 6.x patches or sometime in 7.0.

Now, Fandaniel showed us that even if the overlords are raised to their former stations, it doesn't necessarily mean they hold the same goals as the Unsundered Three did, they can have their own agendas and, now free from Elidibus' oversight, they can probably do their own thing separate from the Convocation. And both Amon and Gaia showed us that one can conquer the "Zodiark tempering" by essentially rejecting their Ancient identity and establishing oneelf as their own person; so that means that our remaining two/four may not actually believe in Zodiark anymore. Though I doubt this part since the one we've seen seemed very "All hail Lord Zodiark" unless they pull an "I didn't really believe but Lahabrea and Elidibus were very persuasive."

Basically, they're the last remaining Chekov's Gun from ARR (I mean, not last but y'know what I mean), and the bigger question right now isn't if it'll go off but it it'll do so on- or off-stage...

(Also, always good to have the relevant thread on hand for this)

[Cleretic]

Have we seen the last of the Ascians?

I sure hope we have. At least for the forseeable future.

I've mentioned before, but I feel like the Ascians wore out their welcome pretty hard for both the audience and the developers. I definitely got the feeling among the places I talk about the game around that Ascian fatigue was really setting in for a lot of people right around the end of Shadowbringers' patches, and Fandaniel only ended up dodging it by being, basically, not an Ascian at all in pretty much all meaningful ways. And as for the developers... well, I can't imagine that writers who mulched three different members of their fourteen-member villain group off-screen have an eagerness to use that group more. Speaking personally, I know I don't want to see them again, and am so tired of them that I genuinely kind of hate Pandaemonium, even if it looks like it might have some good ideas and avoids being just More Ascian Stuff by way of Elpis.

I think we're better off not hearing from any Ascians for at least another expansion. Partly to avoid fatigue, partly because 7.0 has that unenviable problem of defining what FFXIV looks like outside of the story that it's been telling this whole time (seriously, making a major part of your next story the literal leftovers of the last one doesn't sound like you've got a sure path forward), and partly because it means that if they do turn up again, it'll feel more satisfying. Not to mention that it'll give the writers a chance to come up with new ways to use them.

[RyuDragnier]

I suspect at least one of the remaining Ascians might decide to help out. While Emet-Selch was out building societies only to engineer calamities, there might be another in some corner of the world who is legitimately uplifting societies, just to see if they can. Probably the advocate of the arts.

I feel like Altima would be THE friendliest Ascian to the WoL. Simply because Azem in the past would be bringing back a lot of things from around the world that could be considered art in some form. Possibly could have even brought in manuscripts from plays around the world, or recreated visual representations of what they'd seen. All of that would be very much important to Altima, the advocate of the arts, and likely result in Altima and Azem having some form of friendship (assuming they don't throw in a "Altima was in love with Azem" romance hook).

[Lurina]

It depends on what you mean by 'Ascian'.

I think the Ascians as a faction are almost certainly done, but we will probably see new lore about the Ancient's world relevant to whatever part of the setting we're currently exploring, since it's now become a fundamental part of the world building. You can't really escalate things in that way and then walk back to acting like the Allagan Empire was the first interesting thing to have happened. I think it was also alluded to briefly in an interview that the remaining convocation members would show up in some form, but that could mean anything.

Emet slaughters every single character poll in Japan, so it is a matter of inevitability we will see more of him in some form or another eventually if only from a perspective of corporate interest. Yoshi-P talked about the possibility of making a whole game about him at some point. That'll probably be a while, though.

[Shookbeast]

I’d like to see one of them actually team up with us (in an earnest way) and give a few more lore dumps.

I do like the OP’s idea that they possibly ran away to other locations/shards though. That feels like a likely reveal down the line. We go to another shard, and meet an enigmatic character, who is eventually revealed to be one of the Ascians in hiding.

However, I also have a sneaking suspicion that this patch cycle is a clearing of the deck - with said clearing happening at a surprisingly fast pace. If so, Pandemonium or the Void narrative may see the few straggler Ascians appear - and then be promptly dealt with.

But there is Athena… who may or may not be our Lahabrea… and I do wonder if they aren’t a contender for our new big bad going forward…

[Cleretic]

But there is Athena… who may or may not be our Lahabrea… and I do wonder if they aren’t a contender for our new big bad going forward…

Odds are pretty highly on 'may not', since after Abyssos we've both received explanation for why Lahabrea went weird and crazy by Emet's observation (because he cut out part of his soul, that changes a man), and have it clearly codified that two separate Ascians had entirely separate means of identifying a change in him; since both of them believe Lahabrea to be the same contiguous man, it's a fairly big ask for someone to pull the wool over both of their eyes for twelve thousand years. It's possible Hephaistos might somehow be 'our' Lahabrea, but Athena's right out unless the Pandaemonium story goes completely insane in the last leg. Which, in fairness, it could; it's a normal raid, they've done that before, but I think doing that would feel kinda sloppy. That'd be several instances of them introducing facts in Pandaemonium for the literal only purpose of being red herrings to send us down the wrong path; that's just not how these writers write. If our Lahabrea were actually Athena, they wouldn't have laid down so much counterevidence.

As for why she isn't a contender for the next big villain... well, it's because she's from normal raids. To have that story work for the mass audience (both in terms of base narrative structure and dramatic impact; people who haven't done Pandaemonium won't know or care who Athena is, which would suck) they'd have to make Pandaemonium required pretty much immediately, and a lot of players aren't going to be down for that. Hell, I'd argue that the Crystal Tower was the smallest possible 'this is now mandatory' ask they could've made in terms of major side content--very easy, only three instances, turns up when there's basically nothing else going on--and people still get mad that they have to do it. I can't imagine the level of negative response if the devs asked them to do twelve fairly difficult raids before accessing the next expansion. Especially if it turns out the next expansion is good enough for people to be hyped about it.

[Seraphor]

I don't think there's any doubt that 'our' Lahabrea was Hephaistos, or at least his the complete form rather than one of the two souls he split himself into. I mean, it was one of the most popular guesses before the Pandaemonium story anyway purely down to mythology and symbolism.

Anyway, I would like there to be some closure, but I feel like we're done with them being a significant threat.
Mitron and Loghrif were technically dealt with in side quests even if Eden had heavy ties to the MSQ, I could see the same being true for Pashtarot and/or Halmarut at some point.
Altima and Deudalaphon would be good to be included somewhere but I wouldn't be surprised if they just write them off due to Gaius.


Having said that... we currently have a villain from another world, with an unknown identity, living on the moon and sat upon a throne relating to Zodiark, threatening yet another apocalypse...
Pashtarot in particular, the convocation member responsible for discipline and order, who in Ivalice lore sits opposed to Zeromus (As Emet-Selch did with Zalera, scion of death) I could totally see as being the Ascian responsible for 'elevating' the four lords, in order to restore order to the Thirteenth.

While it's not a hard bet, I could imagine Golbez and Zero being the shards of Pashtarot and Halmarut respectively. Tying up all the Ascian loose ends in 6.5 with another rivalry plot similar to Eden, but with siblings rather than lovers, of course. (I know this would contradict some of the 2.x Ascian lore but I mean, what doesn't?)
This would give us a blank slate for 7.0

[KageTokage]

I can't help but find it curious that the Ancient language is apparently documented enough in Sharlayan for them to identify words like "pandaemonium" as having originated with them.

Perhaps there are still some traces of their civilization left on the Source we simply haven't stumbled across yet, because I'd much rather learn more about their culture then the Allagans.