Anyone else think caster has suffered this expansion? (hopes for the future)

[Aikaal]

My understanding is that SMN was the TOP King and BLM was the weakest so I guess all those buffs are based on ultimate content which is pretty silly if you ask me.

[Taranok]

My understanding is that SMN was the TOP King and BLM was the weakest so I guess all those buffs are based on ultimate content which is pretty silly if you ask me.

Which would be funny if true, because BLM is the weakest because Endwalker has designed fights that have made the experience of playing a black mage and red mage as miserable as possible. Not because Black Mage didn't do enough damage.

[Ivtrix]

Which would be funny if true, because BLM is the weakest because Endwalker has designed fights that have made the experience of playing a black mage and red mage as miserable as possible. Not because Black Mage didn't do enough damage.

rdm isnt all that terrible, just a lot of good opportunities for optimization

but blm lmao might as well just shoot yourself in the foot

[Aikaal]

rdm isnt all that terrible, just a lot of good opportunities for optimization

but blm lmao might as well just shoot yourself in the foot

Hum, I wouldn't go ahead and say BLM has it worst than RDM. There's mechanics that are just garbage on RDM. I'm just assuming caster DPS role might get reworked next expansion. There's been too many complains and the suffering is too great right now. The question is, will they make it better. Who knows? Kaiten removal and Summoner rework were kinda controversial

[Taranok]

Hum, I wouldn't go ahead and say BLM has it worst than RDM. There's mechanics that are just garbage on RDM. I'm just assuming caster DPS role might get reworked next expansion. There's been too many complains and the suffering is too great right now. The question is, will they make it better. Who knows? Kaiten removal and Summoner rework were kinda controversial

Worst case scenario is they basically rework BLM/RDM into something akin to bard or machinist. Best case is they recognize cDPS is actually a role defined by sitting still and casting, and start removing movement options from BLM, turn SMN back into a caster, and recognize that the best cDPS play comes from being able to move into the correct spot well, well before a mechanic has fired, and then cackling in glee as you managed to nail the position pixel perfect and can continue casting. It's part of what made me absolutely love Leviathan Savage as a black mage.

I love black mage for being able to sit still and cast, and optimize around minimal amounts of movement. Not to pretend to be a bad machinist that is infinitely more frustrating to play as I end up having to jog every 20 seconds such as in the new extreme. I don't care enough about its damage or aesthetic to want to pull out my hair playing the class.

[Taranok]

rdm isnt all that terrible, just a lot of good opportunities for optimization

but blm lmao might as well just shoot yourself in the foot

Apparently it's pretty fight dependent. E.G. BLM is a nightmare on DSR but RDM lines up nicely. I know from experience RDM just kind of collapses in P4S especially in Pinax in a way BLM really wouldn't due to Aetherial Manipulation. Obviously, you can't aetherially manipulate a mechanic like Wroth but Pinax is largely a point to point transfer.

Both are below average on played, with BLM as critically low alongside Monk (I'm assuming ping and theme issues) and Bard (Not sure why, but its timers don't feel good if the boss ever does downtime.)

[angienessyo]

It's been a terrible expansion for casters and I feel like they don't actually ever test any fights on RDM. Because while RDM has some mobility, it falls apart in fights with lengthy periods of movement. I get you can sit on melee combos, but it's not uncommon for those parts of the fight to involve the RDM having to get away from the boss. The SMN rework also robbed us of being able to have any actual choice with playing a high DPS caster, now you only have BLM. (it wasn't unusual for SMN to rival BLM in previous expacs) And well, RDM does less damage than phys range now without having extra mobility to compensate them for being so low. I hope the next expac brings us another high DPS caster so you're not stuck with BLM or two low DPS jobs if you want to be a caster.

[ataren3]

Worst case scenario is they basically rework BLM/RDM into something akin to bard or machinist. Best case is they recognize cDPS is actually a role defined by sitting still and casting, and start removing movement options from BLM, turn SMN back into a caster, and recognize that the best cDPS play comes from being able to move into the correct spot well, well before a mechanic has fired, and then cackling in glee as you managed to nail the position pixel perfect and can continue casting. It's part of what made me absolutely love Leviathan Savage as a black mage.

I love black mage for being able to sit still and cast, and optimize around minimal amounts of movement. Not to pretend to be a bad machinist that is infinitely more frustrating to play as I end up having to jog every 20 seconds such as in the new extreme. I don't care enough about its damage or aesthetic to want to pull out my hair playing the class.

That's kind of turned me off from black mage for the most part for a while now. Back in ARR and HW black mage was so much fun. Where can I stand so I can stay in fire phase the longest? Is there a way the healer can heal me through this vuln stack I'm taking? They'll understand because of this massive damage increase I can do by getting a few more casts off before having to swap to ice.

When we got triplecast I was like "oh wow neat black mage has some mobility!". Then after a bit I was like "... oh. Black mage... the class that's supposed to hit like a truck playing through fun loopholes in fights and damage... has mobility." Then we got two stacks of triplecast. I really want them to remove triplecast now; it took away black mage's shining crown of "screw respecting mechanics, I will destroy if I live through it".

[Taranok]

That's kind of turned me off from black mage for the most part for a while now. Back in ARR and HW black mage was so much fun. Where can I stand so I can stay in fire phase the longest? Is there a way the healer can heal me through this vuln stack I'm taking? They'll understand because of this massive damage increase I can do by getting a few more casts off before having to swap to ice.

When we got triplecast I was like "oh wow neat black mage has some mobility!". Then after a bit I was like "... oh. Black mage... the class that's supposed to hit like a truck playing through fun loopholes in fights and damage... has mobility." Then we got two stacks of triplecast. I really want them to remove triplecast now; it took away black mage's shining crown of "screw respecting mechanics, I will destroy if I live through it".

What's worse is, a lot of people appear to vocally like the fight design of endwalker. This high octane fast-paced movement marathon of full uptime high precision mechanics where savage has the difficulty of a ShB/SB ultimate fight. Frankly, Endwalker's endgame is the closest I've come to wanting to quit the game in a while because I can't just casually sit back and enjoy the content. When every class plays like a ranged physical and the fights punish you for wanting to sit back and relax or cast anything, why bother? It's like starting a game of dark souls, and then the devs decide Parry is the only way to play when launching their Sekiro expansion. If you don't enjoy parry, guess you should just quit because all other playstyles are invalid. They've managed to make tanking, boring gameplay, frustrating by requiring so many layered mits (glares at top.)

[elioaiko]

What's worse is, a lot of people appear to vocally like the fight design of endwalker. This high octane fast-paced movement marathon of full uptime high precision mechanics where savage has the difficulty of a ShB/SB ultimate fight. Frankly, Endwalker's endgame is the closest I've come to wanting to quit the game in a while because I can't just casually sit back and enjoy the content.

I agree 100% with this. The fight design has shifted to constantly mechanic vomit rather than make the mechanic meaningful and fun. Everything has to be a massive stage, with 1 second reaction time mechanics stacked onto each other. Jobs need mobility more than ever with how much running we need to do in a fight.