Would you be opposed to SE implementing a program to scan for addons/parsers?

[HikariKurosawa]

Your whole victim act isn't going to get much traction if you're never able to stop casually insulting people for no reason.

Don't care, didn't ask. ToS is what it is. You self-reporting yourself is doing me all the favours I need.

Also what am I being made into a victim over? The game isn't fun to play with people like you being enabled. I'm not a victim, I just cancelled my sub to a video game. Square enix is the victim here.

I am at my post limit for the day, but I never used the words "chill rpg" I said "it's just a fun rpg to me". Fun is engaging in savage content to me. I am not a chill gamer. I will never value being chill in this life either because that's for cringelords who think they are cool.

People like firemage directly insulting me for a parse that I didn't sign up for, yeah that's cringe. I am proud of my savage clears because they were done honestly and for the clear, not to parse, but to clear the challenging content. The fact that that little cringelord banbait tried to dismiss my accomplishment is all that needs to be said.

There was also no avoiding hearing about the controversy surrounding the omega clear as an mmo player that goes on the internet. It has made waves and it is not going to be taken back under the radar. You have been exposed and now the days of cheating are numbered because quite honestly it's disgusting.

On top of all this, I am not offended. Just disappointed and let down. There is a huge difference. One is related to my emotions, one is related to my judgment of others. I don't feel down because I look down upon you. It's the opposite. I feel good about being on the side of righteousness. You are the defensive victim who is under attack here. Not me.

Also lol, do you struggle with writing? Is it hard work to form words about something you care about? Just curious since you seem to correlate amount of words with amount of hurt feelings.

"I have disabilities so I am exempt from following the rules". No, no, no, you are not.

It's not a superiority complex either, I am superior to you because I don't use addons. That's just reality. Complex implies an internal issue, like thinking your progress means anything even though you've cheated. You are the one with a complex, not me.

[ForteNightshade]

Because people are actively jerks about it and will always be? I am demanding you follow the ToS. It's not about my approval, it's about following the terms of service you legally agreed to when you signed up to play this game. People like you ruin the game for people like me.

On top of that, savage content is the most appealing RPG fantasy for me that exists in this game. Because of the state of addons being normalized, I am not going to fit in in that scene. For what reason? Because you're bad at mechanics and can't do things without cheating.

How does an overlay on someone's screen which calculates numbers become cheating? You can't dislike parsers all you fancy but there isn't even an argument they are anywhere close to cheating. It does nothing except calculations of your DPS. Now you can use ACT for other things but that's a whole different discussion. At a base level, it has quite literally nothing to do with being "bad at mechanics" because a parser has zero impact.

But let's go a step further. Say I or anyone in this thread is using triggers or Cactbot just for the sake of argument. How does it ruin the game for you if you aren't made aware of it while playing said game? Nobody is demanding these things become the norm or really cares what you're using provided you can do the content you've signed up for. My hypothetical hair mod isn't going to make Carbuncle stare longingly and give me a buff nor will it break any of your aesthetics. I'll look exactly the same as everyone else and you'll be none the wiser. If that does, genuinely, "ruin the game" for you then it's entirely a self inflicted problem. I don't dare how you play the game. So why care what I or anyone else does?

The end result should be the same, account terminated.

I'mma let you in on a little secret. If SE actually did this they'd effectively ban nearly their entire raid and roleplay communities which both number in the well over 100,000. I shouldn't have to highlight just how much money they'd be losing monthly . Hence why they'll never take such a draconian action of just outright banning people who have some sort of addon installed.

[Midareyukki]

After this post I am cancelling my sub. I will wait for the future of this game. It's weird for a company to leave cheating as a sanctioned thing. It's one thing if it isn't against ToS like blizzard does for WoW, but to have it against ToS and fully enabled without punishment even when people are openly admitting to using addons and breaking ToS on the official forums.

For people to be shaming players by bringing up their parses to use against them on the official forums as addon users, when the people they are shaming just play the game as a fun rpg because they know that it's not currently a legitimate experience in regards to fair play... It's just weird and toxic. I don't think this community should exist as is. I don't want to support this company as is, and I don't feel good being in this world anymore.

It was just an RPG to me, but now it's become something tainted after the omega controversy bringing how bad the problem actually is to light. Something has to change.

"Xeno's honest thoughts on the cheating drama" watch this video on youtube without feeling sick. It's a test to see how honest you are.

For someone who said they're rather calm, you really aren't acting like it. This is basically you having no chill just because one group decided to cheat.

Because people are actively jerks about it and will always be? I am demanding you follow the ToS. It's not about my approval, it's about following the terms of service you legally agreed to when you signed up to play this game. People like you ruin the game for people like me.

People like you threw insults at other people for wanting to parse their own characters to improve, and denied that disabilities exist. Something SE itself acknowledged and is trying to implement the tools that enable us to get the same type of information slowly into the game so that they don't have to resort to third party tools.

[HikariKurosawa]

For someone who said they're rather calm, you really aren't acting like it. This is basically you having no chill just because one group decided to cheat.



People like you threw insults at other people for wanting to parse their own characters to improve, and denied that disabilities exist. Something SE itself acknowledged and is trying to implement the tools that enable us to get the same type of information slowly into the game so that they don't have to resort to third party tools.

Maybe you should spend less time defending cheating and more time getting good at the game. Sounds like a personal problem.

[solimiano]

For someone who said they're rather calm, you really aren't acting like it. This is basically you having no chill just because one group decided to cheat.



People like you threw insults at other people for wanting to parse their own characters to improve, and denied that disabilities exist. Something SE itself acknowledged and is trying to implement the tools that enable us to get the same type of information slowly into the game so that they don't have to resort to third party tools.

But untill they implement those tools your nothing more than a cheater, you admitted on the official forums you are using third party tools, you broke the tos, your account should be terminated period.
Don't care if you only use it to improve yourself, to get better graphics, because you're colour blind or have disabilities,none of that matters, there's no grey area, there's no use and be quiet about it. All addons are forbidden unless stated otherwise by the developer of the game on the latest statement, not the statement made 5 years ago, the latest one. You and anyone using any kind of add-on are breaking the rules and can be banned at any point for breaking tos.
You want to try your luck and use mods, at least keep your mouth shut, and pray you don't get banned.
I honestly to think there's 2 ways to go forward, either make all mods official and part of the main game or start banning everyone that is using them, if they need to shut the game every day for maintenance to upgrade their mod detection so be it, I'll still pay for my subscription as long as there are no third party add-ons. Either it's official and part of the game or burn it all down.

[Saraide]

But untill they implement those tools your nothing more than a cheater, you admitted on the official forums you are using third party tools, you broke the tos, your account should be terminated period.
Don't care if you only use it to improve yourself, to get better graphics, because you're colour blind or have disabilities,none of that matters, there's no grey area, there's no use and be quiet about it. All addons are forbidden unless stated otherwise by the developer of the game on the latest statement, not the statement made 5 years ago, the latest one. You and anyone using any kind of add-on are breaking the rules and can be banned at any point for breaking tos.
You want to try your luck and use mods, at least keep your mouth shut, and pray you don't get banned.
I honestly to think there's 2 ways to go forward, either make all mods official and part of the main game or start banning everyone that is using them, if they need to shut the game every day for maintenance to upgrade their mod detection so be it, I'll still pay for my subscription as long as there are no third party add-ons. Either it's official and part of the game or burn it all down.

I'm glad you know so much more than the people running this game on this topic.

[Midareyukki]

But untill they implement those tools your nothing more than a cheater, you admitted on the official forums you are using third party tools, you broke the tos, your account should be terminated period.
Don't care if you only use it to improve yourself, to get better graphics, because you're colour blind or have disabilities,none of that matters, there's no grey area, there's no use and be quiet about it. All addons are forbidden unless stated otherwise by the developer of the game on the latest statement, not the statement made 5 years ago, the latest one. You and anyone using any kind of add-on are breaking the rules and can be banned at any point for breaking tos.
You want to try your luck and use mods, at least keep your mouth shut, and pray you don't get banned.
I honestly to think there's 2 ways to go forward, either make all mods official and part of the main game or start banning everyone that is using them, if they need to shut the game every day for maintenance to upgrade their mod detection so be it, I'll still pay for my subscription as long as there are no third party add-ons. Either it's official and part of the game or burn it all down.

...Hmm... then I need some clarification. Not just from you, but from other people who know better. Preferrably a moderator with knowledge on this.

First, I'd like to clarify something myself. I hope you're not expecting Reshade/Gshade. I don't use them because my PC kinda doesn't like it. Last time I used ReShade, it was on Skyrim. SKYRIM of all things, that game's older than gay marriage has been legal in the UK. And the fan started screaming at me. So I doubt my PC would agree with those things being on at all on an MMO. So I don't have it installed, be it on FF14, GW2, PSO2 or whichever other MMO.

The ones I use are in my NVidia card :x They're no different than me tweaking the settings of my monitor. Is Square disallowing me changing my graphic card's settings or my monitor's settings so I can tell hues apart? Because I don't think they can implement a program to scan for addons and block the graphics card. If they do, the graphics card won't work, and thus the game won't render. I doubt it'd even load. Nvidia shaders aren't a third party tool necessarily. They are third-party, but they are just as much as my CPU or monitor are. I kinda can't play without it???

I admitted I use shaders, yes... Nvidia shaders. Because, as I've explained before, changing the saturation down on things like FF14's colourblind mode does is insufficient. I need something to help me tell some stuff apart. And even then, it doesn't give me any upper edge in any case, because even with that on, P3S was a disaster. I can't tell orange apart from orange, some stuff is too faint for me to tell. It's not making stuff brighter or darker that's going to make a change on it, because it's all orange. I'd need a better indicator altogether, and I can't get that unless SE actually goes into the fight and changes how the indicators are displayed. All that I do with my shaders is just change how certain values are rendered so I can tell them apart, making dark stuff darker and bright stuff brighter.

See, this is one of the cases where I wish a mod could step in to clarify, if possible. Because I don't know whether I'm doing wrong or not. For me, this is no different than me changing the brightness setting on my monitor. But illegality isn't up to me, and I'm sorry but not you either, to decide. It's up to Square. And right now, I don't know where Nvidia stands, so I'm not even certain if what I'm using is illegal or not. If it happens to be, then I'd like to be properly informed of it so that, yes, I do stop using it.

[SaitoHikari]

...Hmm... then I need some clarification. Not just from you, but from other people who know better. Preferrably a moderator with knowledge on this.

First, I'd like to clarify something myself. I hope you're not expecting Reshade/Gshade. I don't use them because my PC kinda doesn't like it. Last time I used ReShade, it was on Skyrim. SKYRIM of all things, that game's older than gay marriage has been legal in the UK. And the fan started screaming at me. So I doubt my PC would agree with those things being on at all on an MMO. So I don't have it installed, be it on FF14, GW2, PSO2 or whichever other MMO.

The ones I use are in my NVidia card :x They're no different than me tweaking the settings of my monitor. Is Square disallowing me changing my graphic card's settings or my monitor's settings so I can tell hues apart? Because I don't think they can implement a program to scan for addons and block the graphics card. If they do, the graphics card won't work, and thus the game won't render. I doubt it'd even load. Nvidia shaders aren't a third party tool necessarily. They are third-party, but they are just as much as my CPU or monitor are. I kinda can't play without it???

I admitted I use shaders, yes... Nvidia shaders. Because, as I've explained before, changing the saturation down on things like FF14's colourblind mode does is insufficient. I need something to help me tell some stuff apart. And even then, it doesn't give me any upper edge in any case, because even with that on, P3S was a disaster. I can't tell orange apart from orange, some stuff is too faint for me to tell. It's not making stuff brighter or darker that's going to make a change on it, because it's all orange. I'd need a better indicator altogether, and I can't get that unless SE actually goes into the fight and changes how the indicators are displayed. All that I do with my shaders is just change how certain values are rendered so I can tell them apart, making dark stuff darker and bright stuff brighter.

See, this is one of the cases where I wish a mod could step in to clarify, if possible. Because I don't know whether I'm doing wrong or not. For me, this is no different than me changing the brightness setting on my monitor. But illegality isn't up to me, and I'm sorry but not you either, to decide. It's up to Square. And right now, I don't know where Nvidia stands, so I'm not even certain if what I'm using is illegal or not. If it happens to be, then I'd like to be properly informed of it so that, yes, I do stop using it.

I have no association with SE, but I have moderated for a different MMO in the past.

In the absolute strictest definition, using any third party tool would be a bannable offense, as it is written in the TOS (though it's been years since I last looked at it).

Is it enforceable though? Realistically, no. You need absolute proof that a person is using one, and some of the methods to obtain that absolute proof that SE likely won't ever entertain would run them afoul of privacy laws in some countries. So in order for a player to get banned, they'd either have to openly admit it, or they'd have to get reported along with the person reporting submitting enough proof of their guilt. And even then, SE may still not act for whatever reason, or if they do, they won't tell anyone. And they shouldn't tell anyone of exactly what enforcement actions they take against specific players, because that's how you get empowered Karens in the community thinking like they have a free moral ticket to start abusing the report system. In the MMO that I once moderated for, the moderation staff had a very public presence on the forums, and there were people trying to play politics with us. I myself made the very dumb decision to have played a part in that too, and I do not blame SE one bit for not having a public presence in the XIV forums. I will simply tell you that you don't want empowered Karens in the community.

This is why things like harassment gets moderated far more often at first glance, because the staff can pull up chat logs proving that said harassment took place. I distinctly recall that when I ran E4S with my static group about three years ago, there was a Dragoon who was forcibly yanked out of the instance and placed right into GM gaols. The GM mentioned that they were observing us and were waiting for us to end our raid session for the day, but couldn't wait any longer when we decided to go past our usual end time. What did the Dragoon do to attract the GM's ire? The story goes that during the day before, the Dragoon was in a random E4N party, and he cussed out the healer because the healer (purposefully, as the Dragoon alleges) rescued him into an AoE which got him killed, and said healer presumably reported him for that. The GM otherwise told the Dragoon that he or she was cheering us on in our efforts to clear E4S before letting them off with a warning. The experience told me that SE staff has the power to observe specific instances and maybe even pull up recordings of them too.

So why did they act against this Ultimate raid group for cheating, and not the thousands of people using parsers? The evidence was basically by their own admission, they used third party programs that granted an actual advantage that couldn't be reproduced through normal means, and knowledge of this was very, VERY public. I'd say the harshness of the punishment (which I fully agree with) was probably amplified by the idea that it was as close to an international incident as this game's community could get, considering the Japanese raid community LOVED accusing the NA/EU raid communities of doing the same before this happened. Not only that, knowledge of this incident hit mainstream news in Japan too.

SE's stance on third party programs has consistently remained as such, going off of their behavior:

1) They won't punish you for merely using them, UNLESS...
2) The programs are being used to harass someone else, or granting an actual gameplay advantage. IIRC they didn't go after specific streaming raiders for parsing until toxic Twitch chat started harassing specific players with evidence beyond reasonable doubt that the source could be traced back to the stream.

SE would probably love to ban all use of third party programs, but from a pragmatic standpoint, going after the majority of cases is a waste of time that they simply don't have the manpower for, and would have no real tangible benefit to the community at large. So they only really go after the people that cross into the second point. Of course, the complete irony of someone going on a crusade against people merely using parsers and visual mods, like that Twitter clown, is that they in turn are probably breaking the TOS in a way that SE would consider far more serious. As in, actual harassment.

[solimiano]

...snip.

Honestly I don't know, the initial stance was don't tell, don't get caught, and everything is fine, then the mods kept evolving and all these debacles started happening, it's now the second time Yoshi had to intervene and have a blanket ban on all mods because of some black sheep...
I also can't go into details about shaders since I only have what the ps5 can output, it's not the same as having options in a pc.

Because of a few, now everyone suffers, blanket statement saying all mods are forbidden, and to those that go on about witch hunts and stuff, that was related to the first debacle were the community started mass reporting all the streamers using mods... Streaming with mods visible after the director of the game makes an official post stating all mods are forbidden, what do you really expect.
Same thing now, blanket statement with supporting evidence so noone can say there are grey areas, all and any mods are forbidden.
The best resolution would be to engage with the creators of the mods that serve as qol, and integrate them as part of the official game.
That would without a doubt remove all the excuses to use mods besides cheating.
On the other hand they might go the route of FFXI absolute virtue, wich was impossible to clear when it launched, and if anyone clears it... Well you know they were cheating...
At the end of the day the game belongs to square, they put a statement all mods are forbidden, if they implement some way of checking for said mods and start banning people it won't be pretty.
In terms of the financial side, you also have to take into consideration their culture and how honor is present within it, if it starts making headlines in Japan about overspread cheating, it might actually hurt them more than losing the money from the subs.
To many things for a console peasent like me to consider, but I do hope they move in the right direction

[Daibunnie]

After this post I am cancelling my sub. I will wait for the future of this game.

See ya in 7.0 then.